I was just curious...hope I don't offend anyone

[Kain]

Smaller traps demonstrations on hands.  Of course some of the bigger traps would do damage to you so I wouldnt try it but these are used for smaller animals (the majority of fur bearers).  I would not say this doesnt hurt or cause stress to the animals but it is not going to cause bone crushing or amputating that some would have you believe.  This would probably bruise and may even cause light skin damage.  It is up to you whether you consider that suffering.

Coil Trap Misconceptions
Long Spring # 1 Trap misconceptions
My hand in a 1.75 Victor Coilspring trap

[agchawk]

huntinglonewolf- I look at all the forums just about every day. There is ALWAYS something to learn, I am curious by nature, love anything outdoors, and was curious as to what you do and how you do it. No offense meant by my questions, just being honest. I have no ill feelings toward you or your way of life. I just don't understand all aspects of it...and won't unless I ask questions.

runamuk- Great post. I feel the same.

jack- I hear yea. However, for some reason...at least with me...I can't get past it no matter what sort of animal it is.

tlbradford- I grew up in Pomeroy and we had chickens and rabbits. I slaughtered and help slaughter them for the freezer/dinner table as a youngester, have hunted since I was old enough to tag along with my father, and fish/hunt every chance I get now. I'm not sure it's from lack of exposure to it...in fact, I did things as a kid that I couldn't bring myself to do now. Great post though and I agree with a lot of what you expressed. This was exactly why I started this thread in the first place.

  Honestly, I think it may stem from one incident at a teenager. I drew a doe tag when I was about 14 or 15 years old. My brother and I skipped school one morning to go fill that tag. In our haste to get out of the house before our parents found out we were not going to school I forgot to bring extra shells. That left me with three in my mag and nothing more.
  We headed outside of Pomeroy and immediately found a group of does/fawns feeding out in a CRP field. We sat there, picked out the biggest dry doe in the group and prepared to take her down. Well, they winded us right before I shot and took off across the field. I stood up, took an off-handed shot, and hit her high in the front shoulder. She dumped over, jumped up, and headed for a large patch of brush in a small eyebrow. I took another running shot and missed which left me with one last round.
  I snuck around the edge of the field and located her in the buckbrush. However, because of all the excitement, adreneline, and my being out of breathe, I shot a little low and she took off around a small knoll and into a neighboring draw. I told my brother to get back to the truck and see if there were any more rounds in the truck and that I would track her and see if I could keep tabs on her.
  I immediately found blood on a small game trail so I started tracking. About 10 feet further I found what looked like chewed up asparagus...and immediately knew that she was gut-shot. I continued tracking her until I caught up to her standing next to small stream. Her intestines where hanging out and every time she took a step she would get her hind legs entangled in them and slowly disembowel herself (My last shot had indeed hit low, splitting her belly and spilling her guts). I had no choice....I sat down and watched her until she was too weak to run any further. I then took out my knife, walked up to her, and slit her throat.
  I felt so bad, so disheartened, while I watched her weaken that I honestly didn't hunt again for two years. Honestly, it bothers me writing this up.
   I do not know if this one incident is behind my feelings on leg traps but I'm sure it doesn't help much...LOL.

   (FYI: I am no bleeding heart liberal and will never give up hunting and fishing. You can call me a lot of things but them's fighting words!   )

   Thanks for the responses everyone. This is what I was lookin' for. You can never be "too informed" in my opinion and I appreciate everyone's input.

[agchawk]

Thanks Kain....very interesting!

Oh yea, tlbradford: I do the same thing with my 7 year old. He is out with me all the time and I make sure he sees all aspects of my passion/pursuit(s). He has no issue with any of it thus far and loves doing anything outdoors with dad. In fact, he calls himself my "hardcore outdoors boy!" 

[boneaddict]

I think its a great discussion.  I also enjoyed the trapping pics and vids that were posted.   My grandfather used to spend the winter in the Pasayten and run traplines.  Times were tough, you even ate what you caught.   i love trapping.  Even get several publications in the mail, and they have no problem showing trapped pics.    I welcome them on the fourm as long as they are tasteful.

[huntinglonewolf]

What is it you would like to know?

[boneaddict]

Thats going to keep you busy.

[rasbo]

Thats going to keep you busy.

[dirty24d]

I have a lazy question.. and i call it lazy cuz i could probably look it up in the regs.. 

What are considered legal traps in the state of washington and what are the illegal traps in washington. And what does one need to do to acquire a trapping license and those of you that are licensed do you feel the requriements were adequate.


And for the record I am all for trapping as long as the animal does not suffer.   

Great videos kain!!!

[Kain]

There are a few other videos on Youtube about releasing animals and guys putting their hands in traps.  Even a guy that sticks his arm in a bear trap.  
Glad someone made the videos so I dont ever have to try that.    

Got to take the course to get a license.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/huntered/classes/trapping.php

Here are the season and rules.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00769/wdfw00769.pdf

The course will teach you about the different kinds of  fur bearing animals, some fur handling, types of traps, and which are legal but wont teach you how to trap or be a trapper.  That is where I am.  No budget for traps and no actual experience or teacher to learn from.  Books, internet and videos are going to have to do for now.  

[grundy53]

I'm all for trapping and love to see all of the pictures.

[dirty24d]

So what the heck kind of traps are we allowed to use in this state? all cage and box traps? No visible meat within 30 feet?  so scents only??

[Kain]

So what the heck kind of traps are we allowed to use in this state? all cage and box traps? No visible meat within 30 feet?  so scents only??

Yep just cage traps, colony traps and rat traps (which are OK for weasels).  You can use meat or non edible parts of game animals as long as they are not visible from the air.

[Humptulips]

So a couple of questions here. First what can we use in WA? For fur trapping we can use any trap that doesn't grasp the animal. This being cage traps which include killing traps like colony traps. Mostly though were talking box traps and suit case type beaver traps. Mouse and rat traps are exempt. We can also get a special permit to use padded foothold traps, conibears set under water and foot snares. You can only apply for a permit when an animal problem exists and you have to have tried an alternative and been unsuccessful. These permits are site specific and good for 30 days.
Now the cruelty issue. I really don't think as a rule cage traps are cruel. I do have some reservations about the suitcase type beaver traps but they are the only thing we are allowed to use.
What the WSTA has proposed and is working for is the adoption of Best Management Practises as set forth by The Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies http://www.fishwildlife.org/furbearer_resources.html  and The Canadian Humane Trapping Standards http://www.caht.ca/caht/cahttrd.jsp as set forth by the Canadian Association for Humane Trapping.
Don't know anything about that?
In 1991 the Canadian government signed an agreement with the European Union to abolish foottraps and do research as to the most humane traps available. Since then they have spent millions of dollars testing traps to determine the most humane. As standards have been written and traps tested their use has been mandated and other traps have been phased out. These are the most humane traps but there is a problem in that they are instant kill traps and do not allow for release of non-targets and can be dangerous to the trapper and the public. Fine for wilderness. There are also foot snares allowed for animals that cannot be caught in instant kill traps.
 An interesting side note, fox and mink were exempted from this agreement because the European Union actually had fox and mink and while they wanted to force North America to abolish the foot hold trap they didn't want to be affected themselves.
The United State's did not sign on to this agreement but signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the European Union in I think 1993. We basically agreed to test traps as to humanness and effectiveness and determine the most humane and effective types of traps. The traps that were the best are set forth in Best Management Practices. The testing is on going so if something comes along better it could eclipse what is currently being used. Washington was at the forfront of the testing when Initiative-713 passed and our work ground to a halt.
These are the only scientific tests done on traps to determine humanness and we would like to adopt the results of those tests. We would like to adopt both standards because the Canadians have done the work on instant kill traps and the U.S. has done the work on footholds and are working on snares. We could have the best of both worlds and after all isn't doing the best for the animal what we are all looking for?
When you shoot and animal while hunting often times it does not die instantly so we have to determine for our selves an acceptable standard. How long is too long for it to die? Two minutes? That is the standard set for instant kill traps.
Restraining traps are different. The animal is in the trap for up to 24 hours so we must concern ourselves with  the comfort of the animal in the trap. That is what the standards have attempted to do by quantifying the amount of injury sustained by the animal. Broken bones, lacerations or severe bruising would disqualify a trap.
In the past there has been some practises that would give anyone pause but with the new, modern traps I have no qualms about trapping.

[Kain]

Big Cat Trappin

Little Pine Coyote **Released** Trapping Hunting

[dirty24d]

Well those explanations satisfy my questions. I'm pro trapping for sure.  And may look into a license for next year. It would be really cool if some of our exerienced members were willing to do ride alongs ( 1 day) shadowing to see how they handle situations and proper release techniques where applicable. 


Thats prob a lot to ask but would be cool even if we got a bunch of us to meet somewhere and just do field exercises on the basics..   


Thanks guys !!!