Why out of state?!

[huntnnw]

BOBCAT 

[Machias]

I don't have all the answers to your questions.  I guess I'm just perplexed on how this state used to have 100,000 more hunters than now, longer seasons and better game numbers than they do now. And much better quality experience for the hunters. Yet we continue to be broken into smaller and smaller user groups, fighting amongst ourselves for the scraps that are left in smaller and smaller open GMUs and tag prices go higher and higher, while more and more guys leave the activity.  Either they give up hunting all together, leave the state completely or hunt elsewhere.  ID and MT have most of the same issues we have yet their hunting quality is better...or seems that way at least.  I go to the three year meetings and have always walked away with a sense of lip service.  They do not listen to us, they have their agenda set and have the meetings to blow smoke up our butts.  
For specific things to help the deer herds I would say the first order of business would be to stop the doe harvest, that was one of the thing MO did in the beginning.  Stop the choose your weapon requirement, all this does is pit us against each other, and open up the entire state.  I'm not advocating the whole sale slaughter, your still only allowed one deer.  Stop cherry picking GMUs and open the state up.  Enhance the existing habitat to support those deer in harsh winters.  Most Missouri public lands are partially farmed with a good portion of the crops left after harvest for winter feed.  It's not just big game I'm talking about it's the whole management, small game, upland, furbearers they don't do a very good job on so many fronts, IMO.  A perfect example is the Dept outlawing a management tool coyote hunting with dogs, because they deem it socially unacceptable, making game management decisions based on a few people in the department's "feeling" related to the Michael Vick story, not scientific reasoning.  Especially after they'd already had one effective management tool taken away by the voters, trapping.  Which in turn puts more pressure on the deer herd.  Want to help the mule deer population?  Kill a boatload of coyotes!  Studies have shown they have a massive impact on fawn survival.

Bobcat, I always respect your point of view, I mean that sincerely, but saying they don't control the number of folks hunting a GMU is ludicrous, they control it because they have us ALL crammed into a couple of GMUs, they have total control over the numbers!!

[Machias]

I'm certainly not doing a very good job of bowing out, am I?   

So muleyguy and bobcat, tell me how we fix this state's wildlife management?  Give me the whole concept that repairs it all so we achieve the potential this state has?  Make us a mecca of big game, small game and upland hunting.  My children really need you guys to succeed, and I mean that.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Motivation for me to go out of state is simple. If I see a deer, any deer, in Washington then it was a good day. If I go to Idaho, for example, and don't see more than 6 deer it was a bad day.

It is very rare that I don't see at least a few deer a day when I hunt in Washington. In some areas more than others.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Motivation for me to go out of state is simple. If I see a deer, any deer, in Washington then it was a good day. If I go to Idaho, for example, and don't see more than 6 deer it was a bad day.

When I hunted in some parts of Arkansas I could go several weeks without seeing a deer so I am in heaven.

[boneaddict]

Its all about predator control.  This state has always loved the predator.  Taking away hound hunting was one of the worse things they did.  now they are going to trump that with wolf management or the lack of.  Protect the red tailed hawk and kiss the quail and pheasants good bye.   Its the way this state operates. 

If you open an all out assualt on predators, then game will flourish, and no you don't have to worry about whiping them out.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Its all about predator control.  This state has always loved the predator.  Taking away hound hunting was one of the worse things they did.  now they are going to trump that with wolf management or the lack of.  Protect the red tailed hawk and kiss the quail and pheasants good bye.   Its the way this state operates. 

If you open an all out assualt on predators, then game will flourish, and no you don't have to worry about whiping them out.

[bobcat]

How many states do you know of that allow the killing of hawks?

[DBHAWTHORNE]

How many states do you know of that allow the killing of hawks?

None because yet again they are federally protected. The Feds are trying to take away the peoples (states) ability to manage wildlife. If the state thinks there are too many hawks they should have the power to authorize a season.

[bobcat]

The way I understand it is that if upland birds have the proper habitat, a few hawks will not have a serious impact on their numbers. Look at states like South Dakota with all the pheasants and other upland birds they have. I bet they have plenty of hawks but the difference is they have the necessary cover to hide from those hawks. So we may have poor upland bird hunting in most parts of the state but that is because the habitat is poor as well. I wouldn't blame it on the hawks.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

The way I understand it is that if upland birds have the proper habitat, a few hawks will not have a serious impact on their numbers. Look at states like South Dakota with all the pheasants and other upland birds they have. I bet they have plenty of hawks but the difference is they have the necessary cover to hide from those hawks. So we may have poor upland bird hunting in most parts of the state but that is because the habitat is poor as well. I wouldn't blame it on the hawks.

Agreed. I wish they spent as much time improving and protecting the upland bird habitat as they do the hawks habitat.

[Machias]

A HUGE impact on upland numbers as well as ducks and geese, is coons and skunks.  Both of which are now flourishing after I-713.

[Dave Workman]

Part of the problem is guys either won't or can't see what the real culprit is.  They have this saying someone came up with a long time ago and for whatever reason the hunters of this state swallowed it hook line and sinker.  We're the smallest western state with the most population.  THAT is NOT the reason for the overcrowding and continued loss of hunting time in the field.  It's pitting each user group against each other, all fighting for THEIR time in the woods and being CRAMMED into the same FEW GMUs.  THAT is one of the biggest things that ails this state.

Machias moves to the head of the class.

You have indeed cracked the code!

Resource allocation is designed to keep user groups at each other's throats, vying for a gradually shrinking piece of pie...

[Dave Workman]

I just went to Missouri and got FOUR deer tags

Ohio has one species of deer. Washington has three.
At the time, Ohio's normal deer harvest during a one-week hunting season was approximately 90,000 deer. Washington's harvest was about half.

I think in Ohio they take more than 100,000 deer each season now, and in Washington?  Don't ask.

are you two seriously trying to compare WA state mule deer populations and hunter opportunities with Whitetail populations and hunter opportunities in Ohio and Missouri???

two completely different habitat requirements and two completely different deer species each with compeltely different characteristics;  

You can't even compare the whitetail populations equally;  when is the last time they had a devastating winter kill in missouri  for whitetails??  Even in Ohio, they get a little more winter, but, nothing like we can get in our whitetail areas.

do you two realize that whitetails have adapted VERY well to human encroachment and can thrive in a much more diverse habitat then mule deer??   When was the last time you heard of drought in Missouri and Ohio??  Do you realize they get much more precipitation then our whitetail areas??

I guess I could go on and on.....please do not take this offensively, but, the idea that you can somehow compare whitetail deer management back East with mule deer management in the state of WA is completely off the deep end.  

so, according to you two,  what is going to solve this state's problem is more opportunities on an already stressed deer populations, and all of us singing kum bay ya and getting along??  

What deer fairy is going to show up and magically sprinkle deer all over the place to make all this magic happen?

Nice try but no cigar.
Ohio has one species.
Washington has three.

And how did Missouri get into this conversation? You brought Missouri in, I didn't

Washington has tons more habitat than Ohio and they have some pretty nasty winters there on occasion, same as us.

Washington has tons more PUBLIC LAND than Ohio, and why we don't take advantage of that is astonishing.

If Ohio can excel with a single deer species, what are we doing with THREE species? A lot of that precip in Ohio is snow in the winter.. We have snow too.

If Ohio can produce annual deer harvests like that from largely private land, WTF is going on when we have all of that public land?

And yes, Washington has a lot more predators. The greenies and idiots sort of made that happen. I advocate shooting coyotes on sight. I'm also a keen advocate of hunting black bears and cougars with hounds. And I never saw a wolf I'd want to invite home.

 

[Dave Workman]

You must be living in the past Dave. Most of what you say is 100% wrong. We have decreasing populations of deer and elk, yet you want more liberal seasons. Nothing you say makes any sense. It may have sounded good 30 years ago, but Dave, this is the year 2010. Do you realize that? It's not 1975 anymore.

We have less habitat for deer and elk due to urban sprawl. We have increasing numbers of bears and cougars due to the people of this state voting to ban hound hunting and baiting. We have "Native Americans" taking advantage of their so called rights. We have more and more people wanting to hunt but less land open to hunting every year. We have longer seasons than ever before, with big game seasons and unlimited numbers of tags going from September 1st to December 31st. We have ATV's, inline muzzleloaders, compound bows, electronic rangefinders, cell phones, GPS, and internet message boards.

It's good that you're so passionate about what you believe in, but come on! I doubt if anyone at the WDFW takes anything you say seriously. And I wouldn't blame them. You're just way too far out in left field.

No, I live in Washington state, and the problem isn't with WDFW taking me seriously, they don't seem to take anybody seriously. Except maybe wolf advocates or dickey bird lovers. And I know what year it is.

We saw the decline of hunting begin when the agency changed its name from GAME department to WILDLIFE department.

As for having more hunters, you must have missed the statistics I ran a couple of pages back. We've got — according to USFWS data based on state license sales — about half, maybe 55 percent of the hunters we had in 1975.

If our herds are shrinking, then why do YOU think there are all of these permits and all of these seasons "from Sept. 1 to Dec.. 31?"

You cannot defend the WDFW by claiming there are shrinking herds and more hunters. That argument simply doesn't pass the smell test, and it didn't back in 1975, either, when there actually were more hunters.

I never said we don't have a predator problem. Quite the opposite. Cougars, bears, coyotes...the fur huggers passed that asinine ban on hound hunting. It's time to pressure the Legislature into removing that ban entirely. They can do it legally. I don't think that ban could be passed again.

And don't get me started on tribal hunting.

But this is still Washington, with gazillions of acres of public land, much of it wilderness within our national forests; places where deer and elk enjoy their summer range.