White river special permit holders of the past

[trophyhunt]

If you were unhappy with your experience in the white river this year or in the past years, you should call Dave Ware at the fish and game dept. to let him know. I've talked to a few hunters myself and read some posts on this website of people constantly seeing Indians hunting with elk in their trucks coming out at night. My point is -the Dickey unit in the past was permit only, when the bull to cow ratio was not increasing because of the indian kill they decided to just open up the unit. There thought was why limit the non-native hunters when the tribes were taking what they want. This is exactly what going on in the white river now, I've talked to Dave about this last year and he said they were considering opening up the unit again because of the same situation as the Dickey unit. If those of you who are dissatisfied with the result of the permit hunt all call Dave and let him know how you feel it may help us non-natives get back to hunting an area that the Indians have to themselves. I do feel that the white river could be the second best unit to hunt in on the west side if it stayed permit only but only if the number of elk that the 11 different tribes that hunt it was controlled, that will never happen. Thanks, Dave Ware's number is 360-902-2509.

[bigtex]

I love the White River Unit. However WDFW closed it down to general season a couple years ago because the herd was so low, of course this was due to the fact of all the tribal hunting, and then add in the general citizen hunt. This unit use to be one of the top units for general elk in the state. I think in order to save the current herd the permit only for this unit needs to stay. The Muckleshoots which is the tribe that hunts the unit the most will not give in to WDFW and amend their regulations in order to save their elk. The Muckleshoots have always said the reason why the herd decreased so much was not because of over hunting but rather cougars, give me a break. I think that for the best interest of the elk the unit needs to stay permit only, at least until the herd numbers rebound significantly, the numbers are already increasing but not to a point where you could call it a succesful rebound.

[trophyhunt]

The local game warden that patrols up there says that the tribes are taking too many elk to help the herd out and the special permit only season is only limiting our access to the area to hunt. Our success rate has always been around 9% in that unit, now that we are mostly out of the woods up there it's a free for all for the tribes which is not turning the elk populations around. I love the unit also, but they might as well let all of us hunt it if the indians aren't going to be controlled.

[backcountry55]

i also love the unit but lets be real the indians do kill alot of animals but they only kill the ones by the road so if you open it up to the public people like myself who like to get off the beaten path would whack the elk and there for those elk will not be safe just my two cents but open it up and i will be there!

[trophyhunt]

You and I both hunt off the beaten path, but it's very few of us that do and that backcountry is big with plenty of bulls in it.  I just don't think the Indians should have the place to themselves. Two guys that I know last year hunted it and when they saw an indian in the woods the indian asked what they were doing there??  Then he said "Oh, you must have drawn a permit". I just makes me sick.

[backcountry55]

i agree 100% i drew the bow tag this year spent 11 days there! awesome place you can go further than you want to pack there i will call that number and see what happens!

[BigZum]

I am a ferm believer that you never stop trying to improve things and I am a fighter to the end. All the problems do not lie on the Indians or native Americans. Yes everything in this thread is true, I have had many unpleasurable run ins with Indians over the years while I have been scouting and/or hunting. But if I may be allowed to throw my two cents in. Many things have ruined hunting in this State. Yes the Indians being able to do what ever they want when ever they want is a huge factor, so is the fact that hound hunting's was taken away, baiting for bears was taken away, trapping for the most part was taken away. Mans way of controlling predator's which kill many off spring have been greatly compromised by the spineless government in Olympia who could fix the problem.  Many of the folks making the decisions in Olympia have never had a rifle, fishing pole, smoke pole, bow and arrow in their hands. I was drawn for the White River tag this year, saw several bulls and harvested a very nice one. My partner also was drawn and he too harvested a nice bull. We worked for them, very hard !! I have the pleasure of hunting several States, Colorado, Utah, Montana, Wyoming. These States are truly managed for the good of the herds, not how can we make a buck $$$ at any cost. Yes Utah has made some mistakes when it comes to their deer population but my god look what they have done with there Elk herds. I will continue to put in for special hunts in this State but other than that if I don't get drawn the rifle stays in the gun cabinet. I have been fed up for several years with the mismanagement of the wild life in this State. I will continue to fight, but I am a fraid to say between pay to hunt, Indians shooting whatever they want, no real way of managing predator's, and the folks running the Wild Life Division in Olympia, this State is doomed for the avid hunters like the folks on this site. It will never happen but if everybody in Washington state would not buy any licenses for one year just think what kind of voice we would have in Olympia. Till then save your dimes and nickles and hunt out of State you will be amazed at the difference good management can make. Just my   

[trophyhunt]

I'm glad to hear you had a good experience with your white river tag, your right on your points given. I still believe it should be open to everyone if the indian tribes keep killing uncontrollably like they are. If you work hard in that unit you should give yourself a chance every year as an over the counter tag. And now with the winston unit mostly gated and no hunting elk in the handcock properties (except for a lucky few.. hopefully me next year) there isn't a lot of elk area available to hunt on this side of Mt Rainier.

[BAR C3]

I am a ferm believer that you never stop trying to improve things and I am a fighter to the end. All the problems do not lie on the Indians or native Americans. Yes everything in this thread is true, I have had many unpleasurable run ins with Indians over the years while I have been scouting and/or hunting. But if I may be allowed to throw my two cents in. Many things have ruined hunting in this State. Yes the Indians being able to do what ever they want when ever they want is a huge factor, so is the fact that hound hunting's was taken away, baiting for bears was taken away, trapping for the most part was taken away. Mans way of controlling predator's which kill many off spring have been greatly compromised by the spineless government in Olympia who could fix the problem.  Many of the folks making the decisions in Olympia have never had a rifle, fishing pole, smoke pole, bow and arrow in their hands. I was drawn for the White River tag this year, saw several bulls and harvested a very nice one. My partner also was drawn and he too harvested a nice bull. We worked for them, very hard !! I have the pleasure of hunting several States, Colorado, Utah, Montana, Wyoming. These States are truly managed for the good of the herds, not how can we make a buck $$$ at any cost. Yes Utah has made some mistakes when it comes to their deer population but my god look what they have done with there Elk herds. I will continue to put in for special hunts in this State but other than that if I don't get drawn the rifle stays in the gun cabinet. I have been fed up for several years with the mismanagement of the wild life in this State. I will continue to fight, but I am a fraid to say between pay to hunt, Indians shooting whatever they want, no real way of managing predator's, and the folks running the Wild Life Division in Olympia, this State is doomed for the avid hunters like the folks on this site. It will never happen but if everybody in Washington state would not buy any licenses for one year just think what kind of voice we would have in Olympia. Till then save your dimes and nickles and hunt out of State you will be amazed at the difference good management can make. Just my   

Best analysis I've read on here and Agree 110%!
To boot, the Game Department is excited for the re-introduction of the wolf to Washington State. Guess you should of asked Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana how much fun there having. I wish all hunters and fishermen would unite in this state for one year and boycott buying tags and licences and watch the whole thinng go down the drain and demand change. It will never happen because of Greed!

[h_chris_e]

I wish they would open it up to everyone again also.  The reason I have been told the area is closed is the herd has struggled and decreased in numbers and by closing the GMU down to limited permit only it is supposedly going to increase the herd numbers.  I did a little investigating and here is a little table I put together off of the http://nwifc.org/ site. I basically copied the info but I only did it for GMU 653.  Can you guys tell from the table when the GMU was changed to permit only?


Hint 1-when is there a spike in tribal %

Answer=2006

If the number of Elk harvested remains the same how has the limited permits helped?
If the number of Bulls harvested remains the same how has the herd benefited?

I Am all for conservation and wouldn't mind not hunting there for a couple years to increase the herd numbers.  Heck it would benefit us all especially if it open for general season again.  I hope they figure out how to grow the herd so I can hunt there one day.

On a side note I heard somewhere that some of the land that Weyerhaeuser sold to Hancock was possibly being sold to a tribe(Maybe Muckleshoot) I do not know if this is true or a rumor.  If it is true it may not matter if they ever open it for general season agian. 

[trophyhunt]

they did sell it to the mucklucks, and hell no will they open it up for us non natives. Just wait till they own all the handcock properties and list it as tribal trust land and kick all of us out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lewy]

Thats what sucks, "if" or "by" the time it is changed back to a general unit the Shmucks will more than likely own a large portion of the unit anyhow. That will push everybody up onto FS ground, which by the way, the indians will have been hunting with rifles by mid August anyhow......Its a freakin shame

[bigtex]

On a side note I heard somewhere that some of the land that Weyerhaeuser sold to Hancock was possibly being sold to a tribe(Maybe Muckleshoot) I do not know if this is true or a rumor.  If it is true it may not matter if they ever open it for general season agian. 

They sold SOME of the land to Muckleshoots. If I remember correctly its about 7,500 acres.

New this year Hancock is NOT allowing treaty hunting on their lands. So if a tribal member wants to hunt Hancock lands they need to follow WDFW regulations and get the licenses/tags that general citizens need.

[lewy]

Are you talking Kapowsin

[link]

Are you talking Kapowsin

Must be Kapowsin, they wouldn't do that for the white river area.