using illumanock in Wa

[pianoman9701]

If Washington allows lighted nocks what would they allow next?  Expandable broadheads?  This state is so messed up.....Both of these should be allowed if a person wants to use them while bowhunting.

How about draw locks?  PODs?  Explosive tips?  Laser sights?  Laser Rangefinders attached to the bow? Crazy huh, I'm just seeing if you guys have any line that you don't want to cross or is the standard, hey if a guy "wants" to use it then it's all good.  Is there any limit for you guys?  Just asking.  I wonder how all the old timers ever killed any deer or elk at all.

I want heat seeking arrows with exploding tips. That would be awesome for the new SWAT season.

[Machias]

Sure why not!   
 
Hey guys check this thread out.  According to the proponets for expandables and illuninock the reasons you want these items is so you have less wounding, better recovery rates which "should" translate into somewhat higher success rates.  If that is the case here is a direct result:
 
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,83780.0.html
 

[Atroxus]

If Washington allows lighted nocks what would they allow next?  Expandable broadheads?  This state is so messed up.....Both of these should be allowed if a person wants to use them while bowhunting.

How about draw locks?  PODs?  Explosive tips?  Laser sights?  Laser Rangefinders attached to the bow? Crazy huh, I'm just seeing if you guys have any line that you don't want to cross or is the standard, hey if a guy "wants" to use it then it's all good.  Is there any limit for you guys?  Just asking.  I wonder how all the old timers ever killed any deer or elk at all.

I am not an archery hunter, but I don't see a problem with allowing any of that stuff. It seems pretty simple to me. If you don't like something, then don't use it. 

[Machias]

I am not an archery hunter, but

Oops, sorry didn't read anything after that, did you say something?   

[UptheCreek]

I think there is a legit reason to use both.  Of course we could always wittle some sticks into sharp points and throw the at the animals too....but where do we draw the line at too primitive?  The purpose of some of these improvements is to increase the chance of making a good, fast kill on an animal.  I don't see it as unethical or too modern.  Just my opinion though.

[MDGrand]

Machias,

I hear ya... what you are saying is a legitimate point and it in essence is the "slippery slope" arguement:

if we allow one thing, then it will lead to other things, i.e. exploding broadheads (extreme exageration)..

BUT, this kind of arguement can also be turned.. lets make bows only recurve, no sights, no compounds, etc.

So...

I will offer that there IS a fair compromise between what regulations should be implemented WITHOUT going to extreme exagerations.. The WDFW should, every year, consider and change the rules based on what is ethical without limiting ones freedom. It should not be the beauracracy that is currently is. 

No matter what you currently use (white wraps with pink or bright orange fletchings) a Luminock is brighter and truely an after the effect kind of thing. I think it is a fair consideration considering the cost of arrows is substantial and it since it would not (I believe) push a hunter into taking a shot in the dark, or do something unethical, the freedom to use it should be allowed.

But to get to the "slippery slope" arguement... and considering this thread will most likely go on for some time ...

If a device or system could be implemented or used durring hunting that ensures a more humane kill without compromising ethics, shouldnt we use it?

For example.... Leupolds bow mounted range finder.. doesn't knowing the EXACT yardage help make a MUCH more ethical shot?

NOW...

I know the counter to this one... "this will increase success rates and limit seasons..."

Machias... I saw your post regarding another archery hunters experience vs. rifle seasons, etc.. from what I read, he was comparing those modern hunters that received special permits with OTC archery hunters.. not exactly a fair comparison.

In any account.. my comments here are made in a friendly debate way, so I look forward to a friendly reply. We are all entitled to our opinion..

But at the end of the day, I want to err on what is creates a more humane and quick kill as well as not limiting ones freedom.. there is a fair compromise to all of these similar types of issues.. and in the case of a Luminock they cause no harm, hence the freedom should not be limited.

 

[Machias]

Great response and I agree.  I won't use illinocks, heck I can't even spell it right half the time!  But once they are legal, and I think they will become legal, I won't throw my bow down in disgust and quit.  I only hope you guys are right that it won't eventually shorten the already silly short seasons in this State.  I also believe the, it only makes it more humane argument is misleading a bit.  If your main concern is humanely dispatching the animals then the biggest step in that direction is closing the distance, not shooting a tracer round.   

[WildWind1]

I am not an archery hunter, but

Oops, sorry didn't read anything after that, did you say something?   

Please do not forget it is also the general public who has input, not just hunters. The animals and woods are for everyone to enjoy.

[buckfvr]

Its a line drawn in the sand.......Archery Regulations 1. b.  , page 68.  If attempts to "modernize" archery equipment succeed,and success rates go up, it will be like dumping gas on the flame that already burns strong and brite.  That flame is a "Traditional only" season that will come at the expense of  the more succesfull " Modern Archery Season".

If you dont think this can/will be the results, you arent listening.....there are a couple very good knowledgable trad guys on here who know all too well about this issue.

You want to loose time in the woods with your bow??, keep asking  for things you dont need.  Effort to keep what we already have will be an on going issue year in and year out. 

[Machias]

I am not an archery hunter, but

Oops, sorry didn't read anything after that, did you say something?   

Please do not forget it is also the general public who has input, not just hunters. The animals and woods are for everyone to enjoy.

Agreed, but when it comes to the Bowhunting Community determining their parameters and equipment uses and restrictions, I don't really care to hear from a person who doesn't use that equipment or hunt in that season.   

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

As I have stated countless times, it is an eventuality that both Lumenoks and expandables will be allowed.
Those that want them, and those that market them have too much money to be denied for long.
I, myself, will probably never use them, but really have no opposition to them.
However, as an "elitist" I still feel that the more junk you put on your bow/arrow detracts from the sport of archery, and makes it more of an attempt to just kill an animal, no matter what.
To each their own...
We all hunt for different reasons, to me it is in how I accomplish something, not just that I did accomplish something.
This year I passed on 2 "easy" shots on Bulls, and one cow because of my own self imposed limitations, If I had been using a more "modern" bow, I would have had a dead Elk.
It would not have mattered what I had on either end of my arrow.
The satisfaction I receive from accomplishing something that I have purposely made more difficult for myself far outweighs the feeling I receive from "just doing it"
If that means I have to eat "tag soup", then so be it, but I have good memories, and personal fulfillment long after the meat is gone.
If you feel that you need to use these contrivances to make your season more enjoyable, power to ya !
But I know at the end of the season, the only thing that matters to me is, how I feel about myself, and do I blame (or credit) my equipment for success or lack thereof ?
Now if you just want to use them because you think they are cool, and not because you think they are neccessary, well fine and dandy !
I have some whistling tips I like to play with also, and blunts for stump shooting.
If you feel that you need to use a lighted nock (or expandable BH) to be effective as an archer, I empathise with you, because maybe Archery really is not your sport. 

[MDGrand]

its ok to like cool new technology.

I for one, do not believe that it will make me MORE effective as an archer, however, I have lost an arrow or two that I spent time fletching and if seeing that sucker light up, helps me find it in the bush towards the end of the day when the light is low to let me know for certain if I made a good hit, then I am for it. So goes with a rangefinder on your bow.. I consider the worst thing out there to be loosing an animal or making a poor shot.. and as opposed to a rifle which gives substantially more impact, there is no denying that these kinds of things can help in making a more humane kill.

Nothing should substitute practice and knowing one's limits.. but again, I think there are fair compromises here that does not limit ones freedom.

[Machias]

So just to be clear, you're are saying you'd be good with shorter season if you could use equipment that increased the overall success rates.  Right?  Because that is the net effect.  That is the main reason they used for shortening the season this last time. Success rates.

[buckfvr]

I am not an archery hunter, but

Oops, sorry didn't read anything after that, did you say something?   

Please do not forget it is also the general public who has input, not just hunters. The animals and woods are for everyone to enjoy.

Agreed, but when it comes to the Bowhunting Community determining their parameters and equipment uses and restrictions, I don't really care to hear from a person who doesn't use that equipment or hunt in that season.   

Count me with Fred on this one.....dont walk the walk?  IMHO you dont deserve a voice.

I dont see these items having a "humane " impact....there will be more guys who use these to push the envelope same as  those who push the envelope with speed......go look at ethical ranges post to see what I mean.....ethics vary like opinions.....now if we could give everyone the same set of ethics..........

[boneaddict]

I've pondered this thought/argument for sometime.  The one where its too dark to find my arrow to know if I made a good hit.   The conclusion that I have come to is that if its too dark to see where my arrow went, or too dark to find it with a know trajectory etc, THEN IT MIGHT BE TOO DARK TO BE SHOOTING AT AN ANIMAL.   Just my thoughts of course.