using illumanock in Wa

[DBHAWTHORNE]

  If your against allowing electronics into archery your just an elitist.  Does that pretty much sum it up?

No, being against allowing electronics into archery doesn't make someone an elitist.  Comments such as "training wheels", "true archery", "those who chose to use modern equipment can't possibly be hunting for the same reasons I do", makes someone come across as an elitist.  Those are just a few off the top my head and the last one may not be word for word but you get the idea. 

Well, you obviously are referring to me, and I will say, maybe I am an "elitist", if that is what you consider one, but referring to "Training Wheels" on a compound is a common joke, referring to the cams on the end of the limbs, they are put there for the sole purpose of making holding the bow back easier, and increasing speed, making accuracy easier.
Calling Traditional Archery "True Archery" (although I don't think this was my statement), is or would be referring the difference of shooting an arrow using a bow that is simple in design and function, at least that is what I would mean if I said that.
Now to address my statement, "those who chose to use modern equipment can't possibly be hunting for the same reasons I do", I hunt with Traditional equipment because I like to, I enjoy walking around with a nice piece of wood in my hand, and shooting stumps, the occasional rabbit, grouse or whatever, I enjoy seeing how close I can get to Deer and Elk (still working on Bear), and a successful day is any day I can get out and enjoy the woods.
It is my opinion that when you spend money to buy a bow, that is in actuality a machine to launch arrows, has all the attachments to make that more efficient and easier, and hunt with that weapon, then you (probably) are more concerned with harvesting an animal, than just enjoying the day afield.
I have been in camps where I have listened to hunters talk about their day, and the majority of the conversation is about seeing game, but unless we are packing, or looking at the animal on the meat-pole, it is about missed opportunity, or shots they could have made, or if they did not see any Elk or Deer (legal) it is complaining about lack of game.
I tell them about the baby bobcats I saw, or the Badger, the fun I had messing around with a squirrel, some cool item I found, empty my pockets of cool rocks, mushrooms, whatever.....
As the season progresses, if there is no meat hanging yet, the talk turns to going home, where are you hunting late season, next year, duck season, fishing, work, everything but, what a good time we are all having.
I look forward to every sunrise, and when the sunsets, long for a few extra minutes, not because I hope for a shot, but because I hate to see my day end, I do not care what type of weapon you use, but in my opinion, if you are more concerned with the stuff you can put on your bow/arrows or carry in your pocket, then you are not hunting for the same reasons I am........

I think you put it perfectly when you stated "if you are more concerned with the stuff you can put on your bow/arrows or carry in your pocket, then you are not hunting for the same reasons I am........".

We all hunt for different reasons, have our own ideas of what constitutes success, true hunting, true achery, etc. I certainly don't want to take away anything from you that may diminish your hunting experience. Hunting is about the individual experience. Let's not deny someone something solely for the reason that it doesn't meet our individual definition of that "experience".

[DBHAWTHORNE]

It is my opinion that when you spend money to buy a bow, that is in actuality a machine to launch arrows, has all the attachments to make that more efficient and easier, and hunt with that weapon, then you (probably) are more concerned with harvesting an animal, than just enjoying the day afield.


 I do not care what type of weapon you use, but in my opinion, if you are more concerned with the stuff you can put on your bow/arrows or carry in your pocket, then you are not hunting for the same reasons I am........

Assuming that what type of "stuff" someone puts on their bow/arrows or carries in their pockets or what type of bow they spend their money on means that they are more concerned with the the harvest or the "stuff" than the hunt itself is what comes across to me as an elitist attitude.  

I thought traditional hunting, true hunting, the origin of hunting was pursuing animals to "kill" and eat?? We are so fortunate that we can enjoy the experience (the hunt/pursuit). Of course I am concerned with killing the animal. It is ultimately why I hunt. I can have an equally rewarding and nourishing outdoors experience without a instrument of death in my hands. We can't shy away from the truth as hunters. We are there to "kill" an animal. Making the kill easier with a weapon that is easier to master doesn't mean one can't/doesn't enjoy the experience as much as a person who imposes self limitations.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I thought traditional hunting, true hunting, the origin of hunting was pursuing animals to "kill" and eat?? We are so fortunate that we can enjoy the experience (the hunt/pursuit). Of course I am concerned with killing the animal. It is ultimately why I hunt. I can have an equally rewarding and nourishing outdoors experience without a instrument of death in my hands. We can't shy away from the truth as hunters. We are there to "kill" an animal. Making the kill easier with a weapon that is easier to master doesn't mean one can't/doesn't enjoy the experience as much as a person who imposes self limitations

That is why I said "reasons", not "pupose"

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I thought traditional hunting, true hunting, the origin of hunting was pursuing animals to "kill" and eat?? We are so fortunate that we can enjoy the experience (the hunt/pursuit). Of course I am concerned with killing the animal. It is ultimately why I hunt. I can have an equally rewarding and nourishing outdoors experience without a instrument of death in my hands. We can't shy away from the truth as hunters. We are there to "kill" an animal. Making the kill easier with a weapon that is easier to master doesn't mean one can't/doesn't enjoy the experience as much as a person who imposes self limitations

That is why I said "reasons", not "pupose"

Copy all... thanks for the clarification.

[Snapshot]

They have tracking string that mounts on the stabilizer and attaches to the arrow.  That way you can find animals that run off.  It isn't electric.

ive seen those, dont know anyone that uses them,wonder how or if it affects the shot at all,seems like a good alternative

It slows down the arrow considerably, snags on branches, the wind will blow it onto the sight pins.......but I only tried it briefly in heavy brush with a bow that couldn't go much past 30 yards....not these 100 yards bows.

String trackers are suitable for close treestand shots (i.e. on bears over bait in Ontario) in extremely thick foliage where the only way to follow where the animal ran is to crawl through the foliage following the string. [I hear it makes for a "heart in the throat" moment when it is impossible to follow the exact path so one has to go around a tangle and there suddenly is a large patch of black in the periphery five feet to one's right or left.]

[Snapshot]

In short, there will be some objections to such a proposal and when the Game Commission reads or hears these objections then they will see that many archers are more interested in gadgets than seasons.

I have not attended any of the meetings, are you suggesting F&G's stance is that the acceptance of lumenocks would result in shorter archery seasons?

I have attended these meetings and once during my testimony I was asked by a Commissioner, "I just had one guy tell me a few minutes before this meeting that he killed a bull with his compound from 90 yards and that he had practiced out to distances of 100 yards: When are you guys going to draw a line on the technology that you will allow?"

[About a year or two later 1) we lost about 25% of our early deer season 2) our early elk season dates were changed, 3) they tried but failed to take away the Swakane late hunt and 4) they took a couple of days off the front of the late deer season. They said we were too effective at killing "mature" bucks and bulls.]

[Special T]

WOW i didn't think there would be so much debate over iluminocks.... Snap shot, I think its amazing that they are concerned about us harvesting "mature" animals I would think that it would be much better if every one shot nice older 3-4pint deer and older bulls... obvious in some areas Doe/cow  harvest is important but wow... 

[Lowedog]

In short, there will be some objections to such a proposal and when the Game Commission reads or hears these objections then they will see that many archers are more interested in gadgets than seasons.

I have not attended any of the meetings, are you suggesting F&G's stance is that the acceptance of lumenocks would result in shorter archery seasons?

I have attended these meetings and once during my testimony I was asked by a Commissioner, "I just had one guy tell me a few minutes before this meeting that he killed a bull with his compound from 90 yards and that he had practiced out to distances of 100 yards: When are you guys going to draw a line on the technology that you will allow?"

[About a year or two later 1) we lost about 25% of our early deer season 2) our early elk season dates were changed, 3) they tried but failed to take away the Swakane late hunt and 4) they took a couple of days off the front of the late deer season. They said we were too effective at killing "mature" bucks and bulls.]

And all this time I thought they set season lengths using harvest data and success rates not on how far away people are shooting animals. 

[Snapshot]

I suppose you could launch arrows long distance during fading light and watch where they are going/hitting...?

Of course one could. And therein lies the concern.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I suppose you could launch arrows long distance during fading light and watch where they are going/hitting...?

Of course one could. And therein lies the concern.

So the concern is ethical hunters would suddenly become unethical hunters because of an illumanock?

[Special T]

Kinda makes you think your arguing what comes first? the chicken or the egg?

[Snapshot]

And all this time I thought they set season lengths using harvest data and success rates not on how far away people are shooting animals.  

Yes, the harvest data told them that we had become more successful at killing mature bucks and bulls. And the commissioner wondered how it had come to pass that a short range method of hunting had evolved into one that allowed a person (who only picked up a compound because he had drawn the multi-tag, by the way) to kill a big bull from a distance of 90 yards. And he asked if the bowhunting community wasn't concerned about this contradiction.

[Snapshot]

So the concern is ethical hunters would suddenly become unethical hunters because of an illumanock?

While it may be true that some may be tempted, no, the concern is that new and future hunters won't have the foundation under them that they may need to successfully guide bowhunting into the NEXT century. Those who fought for and gained the seasons we all enjoy didn't look for an easier way. The rifle was there for those who wanted/needed it to be easier.

[Snapshot]

Also, I've never even had the thought of the Lumenock as being an asset in finding a lost arrow after a miss.

'Finding the arrow' has been at the forefront of the 'pro' argument. OH, yeah..., but just to read the blood, I know... no one ever misses. 

[Lowedog]

And all this time I thought they set season lengths using harvest data and success rates not on how far away people are shooting animals.  

Yes, the harvest data told them that we had become more successful at killing mature bucks and bulls. And the commissioner wondered how it had come to pass that a short range method of hunting had evolved into one that allowed a person (who only picked up a compound because he had drawn the multi-tag, by the way) to kill a big bull from a distance of 90 yards. And he asked if the bowhunting community wasn't concerned about this contradiction.

So he didn't consider that the increase in harvest could have been in direct correlation with an increase in hunter numbers like what has happened since starting the multi season program?  The shortened seasons were based off of one guy who said he shot an elk at 90 yards?  

Someone killing or even taking shots at an elk or deer at those kind of ranges is nothing new to archery.  There has always been those who push the limits and there will always be.   I knew of guys who had 100 yard pins on their bows 20 years ago when I first got into archery.  I would venture a guess and say that even with todays super fast bows that most archery hunters are killing game at short distances just like they always have.

Did you explain to the commissioner that those types of shots are not the typical shot for archery hunters and that the majority of hunters would think of that as an unethical shot?