new info on 4 pt restriction

[walt]

 

I have been involved in this discussion for about 6 to 8 years and I used to oppose it. I openly agreed with Steve Zender before his retirement at the Advisory Committee meeting. But things have changed much since then. Our deer are probably at only 40% in numbers of what they were then. Right now we need this to build deer numbers.

Didn't this first come up after the harsh winters in the late 90's?  The population recovered and numbers were up before the 2 hard winters of '07 and '08, they dropped and now they are on the rise again.  Why do we have to do something right now?  Why not give it another two years.  The population has gone up and down with the weather for decades and every time we have a decline it's the same story.  "the sky is falling" and "we have to act now to save our herd"...  

Show me a study on population numbers over the last 30 years.  Anyone?  That herd is not struggling, it is going through its natural cycle.  If this was really about increasing numbers they would shift the season to eliminate rifle hunting during the rut.

It's all about the money and it makes me sick.

[bobcat]

Please answer these questions:

If APR's don't work then why do we have them all over the state?

If you are saying they don't work, then why don't we remove them all?

The reason we still have point restrictions is because they are popular with hunters. The WDFW wanted to do away with it a couple years ago but they were outvoted by the general public. That's what's wrong with the WDFW- they listen to what hunters want instead of doing what is biologically best for the animals.  IMO

[Skyvalhunter]

Obviously there was a reason why they adopted it in the first place. Its seems logical that it allows the younger bucks a chance to get larger and become wiser thus increasing the survival rate.

[bobcat]

Yes, the 3 pt minimum for mule deer started after the population crashed after a couple of hard winters back in the early 90's, if I remember correctly. But it was only supposed to be a temporary thing. Don't you remember a couple years ago when the WDFW biologists were pushing to do away with the restriction, but they got so much opposition from hunters who thought the point restriction was responsible for the deer numbers coming back. Especially in Chelan County, but it had more to do with some easy winters and the fires which created ideal habitat.

[257 Wby Mag]

You folks are lucky up there, I wish they would make it 3 point or better blacktail on the west side...

[lokidog]

You folks are lucky up there, I wish they would make it 3 point or better blacktail on the west side...

i hope they make it 3pt min for blacktail except youth and seniors let them shoot spikes and 2 pts but everyone else 3pt or better

Sorry to say this but bite me on this blanket three-point idea....  Where I live, there are very few three point bucks because we do not have the genetics for eyeguards on the forkies.  In five years I have seen three deer on this island that had more than three points on a side.  Last season, I saw maybe three three points of all the bucks seen.  We have shot three bucks that were over 2 1/2 years old here that were stilll only forks.  Maybe it should just be deer with five points or a 24" spread??


It is shortsighted to manage large diverse areas in the same manner as each other because habitat differences determine the management needs of herds in different areas.

[Miles]

I can tell you this for absolute certain and you can not say this is wrong:  "If the state is too narrow minded to try an APR in NE WA, we will never know if it would have worked or not worked."

That's like telling someone if they don't try meth, they will never know if it would have harmed them or not... It's still a bad idea.

[bearpaw]

Everyone has an opinion and that is good. But as I stated before, there are studies showing that APR's work and don't work. Until you try it in a couple test units, there is no way to know if it will work in NE WA.

The difference between APR's and meth is that there are no studies that show meth to be beneficial, so no reason to try it and every reason to avoid it. 

If my only concern was making money, I would certainly want to make 117 and 121 a draw and grow the biggest bucks possible so I could sell $5000 trophy hunts. I see the issue as a compromise, reduce the buck harvest and still allow local people an opportunity to hunt.

If I am not mistaken in many threads I see hunters complaining that the WDFW doesn't consider the local hunter's wishes. Now in this thread by some poster's standards, it seems the WDFW should ignore the local people. What gives?

Let me ask you this, where you live is there an issue that you wished you could change to help improve fish or wildlife? Don't you wish you could make a difference? That is exactly what is at issue here. People see a problem and want to make a difference. There is several solutions to any problem, APR happens to be the solution most preferred.

I am nearly certain if we were asking to make this a limited-entry area, more people would be opposed. What do some of you members have to say about that?

Yes we can do nothing, the wolves will continue multiplying and we could end up just like the Lolo zone in Idaho. Right now the people of Idaho wished their F&G would have recovered that herd before the wolves multiplied. Now it may take decades if it ever recovers. If some of you do not know the history of the Lolo and don't know what a "predator pit" is, I will be glad to elaborate.

Sorry for being so long winded. 

[huntnnw]

spot on Bearpaw!  U guys rather have the season closed? shortened? or permit only? or just the 2!! units 4 pt or better.. remember this is 2! units people in NE WA not all

[buck man]

Great comments bearpaw! Living in unit 121 and then moving to 117 and having seen what the winters have done over the last 20 years and running dozens of cameras and spending hundreds of hours in the woods each year I truely believe we need to try something new and I think that antler restrictions might just be the ticket.
 
Our buck to does ratios are out of wack our populations are down and I personally believe we should shorten the hunting during the rut along with antler restrictions.

[257 Wby Mag]

You folks are lucky up there, I wish they would make it 3 point or better blacktail on the west side...

i hope they make it 3pt min for blacktail except youth and seniors let them shoot spikes and 2 pts but everyone else 3pt or better

Sorry to say this but bite me on this blanket three-point idea....  Where I live, there are very few three point bucks because we do not have the genetics for eyeguards on the forkies.  In five years I have seen three deer on this island that had more than three points on a side.  Last season, I saw maybe three three points of all the bucks seen.  We have shot three bucks that were over 2 1/2 years old here that were stilll only forks.  Maybe it should just be deer with five points or a 24" spread??


It is shortsighted to manage large diverse areas in the same manner as each other because habitat differences determine the management needs of herds in different areas.

Never hunted your neck of the woods, the skook would be a real world burner though.....

[huntnnw]

The Buck to doe ratio has been outta whack long before the bad winters.. love the input and comments from people who live no where near here useless

[buck man]

The Buck to doe ratio has been outta whack long before the bad winters.. love the input and comments from people who live no where near here useless

   
   
  Most have no clue about OUR deer issues. Not even our own biologists!

[bearpaw]

I went out on deer counts last summer with the local bio, Dana seems very capable and knowledgeable, I think he's a good guy and trying to do the best he can to accurately monitor our wildlife.

Washington didn't have too much of a whitetail plan, but it appears they are trying to get a better handle on our whitetails. Several members of our NE group went on counts and it was a good experience that I would recommend to anyone.

At times I am pretty critical of WDFW but I do understand they have a lot of different people to try and please and you can never please all the poeple all the time. No doubt it's a tough job to keep the all people of Washington even somewhat satisfied. Hunters can't even agree and we are only a small percent of the population. 

[Miles]

I say SHUT IT DOWN.   No whitetail season this year.


Instead, open a wolf season and all those deer hunters can target wolves instead.   It's a win/win situation...