Another training collar question

[10Key]

Well, Chukar was mear inches from heading to doggy heaven yesterday after running directly into traffic, disobeying several commands...the last time I want to witnes a close call. Anyways, I have been putting off a training collar to supplement training, but I am pulling the trigger ASAP.

My question is, what are your opinions on no-stimulation settings on collars? I am looking at the Upland series from Tri-tronics and it seems that to have that option, it costs an additional $150. Do I need or want that capability? I am torn

[huntnfmly]

I have been looking at dogtra and sportdog they have tone or vibration and they are very reasonably priced cabelas has both

[Old Dog]

The non-stimulation is a beep or a buzz, and it works the same way as any audio command.  In other words the same as a whistle or your voice.  I have it with my system, but I don't use it.
BTW Stay with Tri Tronics.  They are the only one manufactured in the USA.

[gasman]

I use the Buzz on mine more then any thing else.
Thats because if my dog dont listen, he know what comes next.
After they are collar trained, you can use the buzz to warn the dog that the shock is comming if they dont do as commanded

[Stilly bay]

giving the dog a warning buzz before shocking it kind of defeats the purpose of an e collar. you have an e collar for instant correction. when using a beeper or buzz function in a collar (incorrectly) its like saying "OK get ready to obey my command...." when with a properly collar conditioned dog, its doing what it is told, the instant it is told.

you want a dog that knows punishment for disobeying KNOWN commands is swift, not dog that knows there is leeway or an envelope to be pushed.

I think the buzz or beep function is being missused by a great deal of inexperienced or on informed trainers, or becomes a crutch for those unsure about when to deliver a shock to the dog. usually those people haven't put the time in colllar conditioning their dogs and really have no business slapping an e collar on in the first place.

[10Key]

All great input that I will consider, thanks a ton!

[Skyvalhunter]

I too use the buzz on my Techtronics more than anything. You see the problem with younger dogs is they what I call doggy ADD. They get so focused that no matter how much you yell, whistle you can break their train of thought. Thats where the collar comes in. If you had a collar on your dog you could have broke his focus so he didn't run in front of a vehicle.

[BallisticsNut]

FYI, in a situation where your dog is not listening and heads towards traffic, you need a "secret" word that is only used in emergency situations.  It is known as a "reliable recall".  We just had this conversation today, my wife and I.  We had a Rottweiler a few years back and she was well versed in reliable recall.  We practiced at lease once a week.  Well, one day she was excited to be out of the house and heading to the nieghbors, were her friend lives.  She darted out towards the street just as a car was rounding the corner.  Reliabel recall, stopped her dead in her tracks and she came running. 

The purpose of choosing a "secret" word is to prevent the dog from hearing or getting used to a normal command, such as come, here, heal etc.  It has to be a word that is easily identifiable and not really sound much like another word.  Such as "umbrella" but obviously you wouldnt use that here because or all the rain here.  We use Bonsai such as Bonsai tree.  To train your dog, use the highest level of treats that he will do anything for.  Train outside in a controlled environment.  Takes two people.  Have your son, daughter or wife take the dog across the yard walking away... once he gets a few feet away, yell the word loudly and get real excited start off with saying 'lets go, lets go' over and over and if needed start heading away.  Get the dog excited, get him running to you.  Use really good treats.  Do this a couple days a week, increase the distance but always do it as a surprise.  Once he/she gets it, then start doing it about once a week outdoors lets say on a normal walk off lease.  Always reward with a high level treat.  The secret word will eventually become a "trigger" for his attention and nothing else will matter at that point.  He/she will come running every time and most importantly in an emergency!  Good luck!

Unless the dog has his ecollar on 24/7 this is the most reliable method of getting your dogs attention in an emergency. 

[gasman]

FYI, in a situation where your dog is not listening and heads towards traffic, you need a "secret" word that is only used in emergency situations.  It is known as a "reliable recall".  We just had this conversation today, my wife and I.  We had a Rottweiler a few years back and she was well versed in reliable recall.  We practiced at lease once a week.  Well, one day she was excited to be out of the house and heading to the nieghbors, were her friend lives.  She darted out towards the street just as a car was rounding the corner.  Reliabel recall, stopped her dead in her tracks and she came running. 

The purpose of choosing a "secret" word is to prevent the dog from hearing or getting used to a normal command, such as come, here, heal etc.  It has to be a word that is easily identifiable and not really sound much like another word.  Such as "umbrella" but obviously you wouldnt use that here because or all the rain here.  We use Bonsai such as Bonsai tree.  To train your dog, use the highest level of treats that he will do anything for.  Train outside in a controlled environment.  Takes two people.  Have your son, daughter or wife take the dog across the yard walking away... once he gets a few feet away, yell the word loudly and get real excited start off with saying 'lets go, lets go' over and over and if needed start heading away.  Get the dog excited, get him running to you.  Use really good treats.  Do this a couple days a week, increase the distance but always do it as a surprise.  Once he/she gets it, then start doing it about once a week outdoors lets say on a normal walk off lease.  Always reward with a high level treat.  The secret word will eventually become a "trigger" for his attention and nothing else will matter at that point.  He/she will come running every time and most importantly in an emergency!  Good luck!

Unless the dog has his ecollar on 24/7 this is the most reliable method of getting your dogs attention in an emergency.

That is a great idea. I once talke to a trainer that did not believe in e-collars and he described the same technique.

[Shannon]

Why not just teach come and demand they listen without having any secret code words? Saying a command and warning them with a vibrate or tone is like saying the same command over and over with no response. The more you do it the more you have to do it. If you teach the command properly and have an ecollar, your dog will listen on the first command. You may have to use the ecollar at first to back it up but after a while it is just a safety that you don't use. I use the vibrate feature on my Dogtra collars to turn the dog in the field while hunting. Its the same as two short toots on the whistle but I get an immediate course change. Its silent and I don't warn the birds we are around.

[RC3]

I agree with shannon if your dog will come to come reliably that should work just fine

[BallisticsNut]

Why not just teach come and demand they listen without having any secret code words? Saying a command and warning them with a vibrate or tone is like saying the same command over and over with no response. The more you do it the more you have to do it. If you teach the command properly and have an ecollar, your dog will listen on the first command. You may have to use the ecollar at first to back it up but after a while it is just a safety that you don't use. I use the vibrate feature on my Dogtra collars to turn the dog in the field while hunting. Its the same as two short toots on the whistle but I get an immediate course change. Its silent and I don't warn the birds we are around.

The theory behind the reliable recall is that the common word used daily such as "come" becomes just noise when the dog wants to do what it wants to do.  Not all dogs obey all the time, lets be realistic about this.  When they get into a "zone" focused on something else they have a tendancy to ignore common commands.   You need to break that focus, get them out of this "zone" and to do this it needs to be a word or phrase that they do not hear over and over and over.  Every time they here this word or phrase it has to mean excitement and good treats, not just to obey or get yelled at. 

Personally, do what you do that makes you feel your doing the right thing.  This technique saved my dog, so I know it works.  If your dog comes every time you tell him too, then I guess you dont have to worry about a speeding car when you dog decides to chase a cat or rabbit into the street.  Just offering up some advice on a technicque that I learned years ago. 

[Special T]

I think of my tri sport dog collar as a really long leash. It is how i can control my dog without a leash. He wears his nearly every day. I think over using the beep is a good point. I usually beep him when i put on the collar so i know its working... He knows its game time and not to screw around when that happens.. 

[jetjockey]

The best thing you can do is to get a Tri-Tronics collar, condition your dog properly, and then teach it the "whoa" command.  Everytime you put your dog on the ground, put the collar on it.  I agree with Stilly Bay, I never use the buzz feature on my collar....  If give a comand, and if the dog doesn't obey, it gets the electricity until it decides to turn the electricity off.  A properly conditioned dog will know why its getting shocked, and know exactly how to turn that stimulation off (by obeying the given command). What you have to realize is your not hurting your dog.  My dog usually responeds to a level 1 stimulation and sometimes I have to move up to a level 1 "high" (I have the TT Pro 100).  A level 1 is a very minor stimulation level that doesn't hurt the dog at all. 

Last fall I had my dog in her crate in the back of my truck.  I dropped the tail gate so I could get her out of the back once I let he out of her crate.  I then moved to the side of the truck to open her crate door.  Unfortunatly, I missed her collar when she came out of the crate and she went out the back of my truck like bat out of hell.  What was worse is that I was in a store parking lot right next to a major road.  While I has having a heart attack and picturing her getting hit by a car, I yeld the "whoa" command.  She stopped on a dime, and I went over to pick her up.  It scared the hell out of me, and I was very happy she was whoa broke.  She might not be around right now if she wasn't.

[10Key]

Jetjockey, what you described is exactly what happened to me, to the T. Chukar missed getting hit by a car coming off of I-5 at about 50mph by less than a foot.