Washington Wolf politics

[haus]

Newspapers are not always correct.  Many people are misquoted in articles all the time.  If we believe the article as fact, why almost 20 yrs later are we talking wolf recovery?  I thought these things multiplied like rabbits .  Surprised we still have elk and deer considering there were 6 packs back in 1992.

Did you read the info on the NPS site? It coorelates with what the newspapers said

As to your question, which is a damn good queston I might add and one that perplexed me also. It's one of many questions that has spurred me into getting really interested in this subject. There are so many gaps in this revolving story around wolves in our state over the past 20 years. The politics, the biology, the media, the studies being used, the studies being ignored. I'm slowly starting to get a picture and I do not like what I am seeing at all. I have a stack of information from media sources, pro wolf groups, anti wolf groups, and everything in between. It's all starting to fill itself out and I'm not liking what I'm seeing er reading.

I'm not referencing the accusations of unsanctioned wolf releases. Such talk has zero to do with what I've just said in the above.

[Special T]

LowDawg   Yup sure did! He may not have the same way with words, but i believe he is putting forth facts that people don't want to hear.... As far as the tinfoil hat I saw a better pic with a harry *censored* that i thought was more fitting!(in another thread)  I've heard from several successful entrepreneurs and millionaires that it is easy to be a nay sayer but takes work to be an optimist.... in all the posts that i have read on this subject i've only seen 3 people  bring REAL arguments to  the table in opposition to WB stance and articles... to my  knowledge you weren't one of them.   

[Lowedog]

You know what?  I admit it, Wolfbait is the Winston Churchill of the wof conspiracy.  I snapped this pic today!  Unbelievable!

[haus]

^^^^^^ 

[bearpaw]

There have been some illegal closed door deals on this wolf issue within our state agencies. Has it dawned on some of you guys there is a reason the former director of the USFWS is now working for the Fund for Animals? Did you realize that the Fund for Animals has strong ties to our own WDFW. Did you know that sportmen's dollars were illegally diverted from the Pitman Robertson fund for the canadian wolf introduction because congress would not fund it.

Have any of you wondered why every option in the Washington Draft wolf plan specifies 15 breeding pairs? Wake up for crying out loud.

Most sportsfolks have no idea what has happened with this wolf issue. The lid is starting to come off in Idaho and Montana and it's not pretty, you ought to cut wolfbait a little slack. His "tinhat" accusations may not be so far off. Until someone proves him wrong, his word is as good as anyone elses, and probably more accurate than many.

It's easy to talk on here about how stupid all the "wolf haters" are, after all most of you do not live with wolves yet. Start talking to ranchers and hunters in Idaho and Montana and your eyes will be opened. 

[haus]

^^^^and Wallowa County Oregon!

[Special T]

Killerermiller  I have a theory why if there have been wolves her for 20yrs and we still have game... The indigenous timber wolves are smaller in size and have small packs... It is just an example but near Sedro Woolley (West side N cascades) I saw a pack of 4 wolves following elk...  I believ e the native wolves have developed some kinds of balance with the local area... The larger Norther gray wolf has large packs 12-20 and are larger in size 80-150lbs... I believe it is this invasive species that is wrecking havoc with our game in the Rockies and soon here. 

[WAcoyotehunter]

That's not a bad theory Special T.  I think that determining the 'local stock' of wolves is important in this situation.   The wolves in the methow (the lookout pack anyway) are smaller animals (weighed in at 75 and 65 lbs in the summer) and are coastal BC animals.  They are likely the native animal for the north cascades and the west side. 
The animals in PO county are larger (108lb male) the female has not been weighed but looks much smaller.  He is from Glacier np and  was native to that area (not introduced lines). 
Both of the documented packs in WA are small, 5 animals in Diamond and 7 in the lookout pack.  They should be raising young now, so we'll see how many of the subadults hang around and how many disperse or die. 
I think the wolves we have now are native animals, they are not the McKenzie river valley animals everyone likes to scream about.

[Lowedog]

The new wolves are also Nazi's!!!

[WAcoyotehunter]

The new wolves are also Nazi's!!!

  yep...they're not just another animal, that would be too easy.

[wolfbait]

That's not a bad theory Special T.  I think that determining the 'local stock' of wolves is important in this situation.   The wolves in the methow (the lookout pack anyway) are smaller animals (weighed in at 75 and 65 lbs in the summer) and are coastal BC animals.  They are likely the native animal for the north cascades and the west side.  
The animals in PO county are larger (108lb male) the female has not been weighed but looks much smaller.  He is from Glacier np and  was native to that area (not introduced lines).  
Both of the documented packs in WA are small, 5 animals in Diamond and 7 in the lookout pack.  They should be raising young now, so we'll see how many of the subadults hang around and how many disperse or die.  
I think the wolves we have now are native animals, they are not the McKenzie river valley animals everyone likes to scream about.

(The wolves in the methow (the lookout pack anyway) are smaller animals (weighed in at 75 and 65 lbs in the summer) and are coastal BC animals.  They are likely the native animal for the north cascades and the west side.)


wacoyote you are talking to the fans agin Have you seen these wolves in the Methow wacoyote, that is up close and personal? I would have to say your whole little article above is, well you know. But that is a great spin kind of like managing more land for all the game herds. I would guess that the wolves that are migratin from Idaho just swerve when they hit the Washington state line. According to the papers the wolves that are in Methow now migrated from Idaho, so how does that work in you little speech to the fans?

[wolfbait]

Killerermiller  I have a theory why if there have been wolves her for 20yrs and we still have game... The indigenous timber wolves are smaller in size and have small packs... It is just an example but near Sedro Woolley (West side N cascades) I saw a pack of 4 wolves following elk...  I believ e the native wolves have developed some kinds of balance with the local area... The larger Norther gray wolf has large packs 12-20 and are larger in size 80-150lbs... I believe it is this invasive species that is wrecking havoc with our game in the Rockies and soon here. 

Thats a good point Special T, in Wyoming, Idaho and Montana they had a smaller wolf that never made trouble for the ranchers and game herds. The same with Washington we had and maybe still have some of the native wolves. But the wolves that are in the Methow now are the Canadian wolves and as time goes on for those non believers, you will see the end of hunting in a few years for the Methow.

[WAcoyotehunter]

What the hell are the "fans"?    

According to DNA evidence the wolves in the Methow are from BC... I know it's tough for you to wrap your brain around, but the newspapers may have made a mistake.  In general, the press should not be referred to as "the experts".  

I have not seen the the lookout wolves.  I have talked to the folks that trapped and weighed them and know what they weigh from that conversation.  I suppose, you being the local expert, that your visual estimates are more accurate?  I'm doubtful that you have seen the wolves "up close and personal" or have talked to the folks that trapped them.  

If these wolves are taking over and you see them so often, why haven't you posted a single picture?   What gives?

[wolfbait]

What the hell are the "fans"?    

According to DNA evidence the wolves in the Methow are from BC... I know it's tough for you to wrap your brain around, but the newspapers may have made a mistake.  In general, the press should not be referred to as "the experts".  

I have not seen the the lookout wolves.  I have talked to the folks that trapped and weighed them and know what they weigh from that conversation.  I suppose, you being the local expert, that your visual estimates are more accurate?  I'm doubtful that you have seen the wolves "up close and personal" or have talked to the folks that trapped them.  

If these wolves are taking over and you see them so often, why haven't you posted a single picture?   What gives?

I guess you forget about that old saying, " you can *censored* the fans but not the players"

Why is it that the papers are always wrong according to wacoyote? 20 years ago the papers were wrong and now they are wrong again.

You are fun to debate the wolf issue with, sometimes I just let you step all over yourself before I say anything, and then poof yer gone.

[bearpaw]

MAKE THIS A TOP PRIORITY FOR THE WEEKEND

Please if you have not written Judge Donald Molloy yet please do so now as he is about to rule in favor of putting the wolf back on the endangered list as I heard on the news tonight. Take the time to write again. It does not have to be a long letter - Just a sentence or two stating you would disagree with any decision to do so.
 
Judge Donald W. Molloy
U.S. District Court
PO Box 8537
Missoula,  Montana 59807
 
It only takes a few minutes to drop a line or two and our future hunts will depend on the outcome.
 
_____________________________________
 
WOLF POLL STILL ACTIVE

The question this poll asks is "Do you agree with the decision by Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks to at least double the number of wolves that hunters can kill next year?

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/opinions/poll_eebadb72-6139-11df-a987-001cc4c03286.html>"

The environmentalists are weighing in heavily.  At the time I voted, the
numbers were 40% "yes" and 60% "no".

We need to switch those numbers by going to this link - and voting.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/opinions/poll_eebadb72-6139-11df-a987-001cc4c03286.html

Montana, like Idaho, is overrun by wolves.  And the problem is getting
worse with each new crop of pups.