Dangerous Precedent- DNR Gives Gate Keys To Tribes for Bear Hunting, What's Next

[huntnfmly]

However if dnr was really concerned about it and it was really against thier policy they would shut it down then get the handle on it.Cant say i blame them for doing it but they are just blowing smoke when they say they are looking into it

[The100Road]

However if dnr was really concerned about it and it was really against thier policy they would shut it down then get the handle on it.Cant say i blame them for doing it but they are just blowing smoke when they say they are looking into it

Yes, most likely blowing smoke. hoping we all forget about it.

[dreamunelk]

http://www.nwsportsmanmag.com/articles/2011/06/15/DNR+Investigates+Giving+Out+Of+Keys+To+State+Lands/

Not sure if I attached the link correctly.

[huntnfmly]

yes the link worked i dont think they thought it would cause such a stink i am glad it did though

[bobcat]

There is no bashing when any group is given this type of access. It is perfectly acceptable to point out behavior that goes against DNR policy. It is just that the tribe was given special exclusive access that goes above and beyond any treaty. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. There is nothing wrong with stating that FACT.

I agree. I didn't see any tribal bashing at all in this thread and I'm baffled as to why some have said that there was.

[Coastal_native]

Sorry Coastal this was another case of misinterpretation.  I was referring to the threads in Dec. Regarding Yakama members caught Poaching in the Nile and the Yakama and Colville members caught poaching in the Wenas.  Both those threads had Yakama (I'm assuming) members posting negative comments and making borderline racial comments on here.  I did not refer to you Coastal or Big Dog in my earlier posts and if I did, I would've just said your name or somebody else's directly.  I read the posts with my own eyes and they weren't posted by either one of you 2.  I followed these threads all the way to the end and then finally started posting after the dust settled.  As I stated many times before I'm not here to threaten, discriminate or name call anybody.  I'm here for the enjoyment of hunting and if called upon provide information regarding Tribal issues.  I never expected to agree with anybody on here 100% whether they were Tribal members or not.  We may be Tribal members but we're gonna have disagreements and our opinions regardless of ethnic background and Tribal Affiliation.  I'm assuming that your definition of me being a "splitter" is separatist?  I encourage you to read all my posts on this thread and other recent threads regarding Tribal issues and not once did I ever give the impression nor present myself as being a separatist or biased.  As far as the "Tribal Hunting" issue you're referring to was not about what you're thinking.  To inform you about my request to the Site Moderators was about creating a topic possibly called "Tribal Issues" or something related.  A place where forum members could go to ask or post questions regarding "Tribal Issues."  If there was a bit of confusion on your part about me then I hope you got a better understanding about me from this if not then again I encourage you to read this whole thread and if that still does not suffice then PM me and I can give you some insight into my background just as I provided to the Site Moderators upon request.  I don't have nothing to hide.

No confusion, I didn't have to read too many of your posts to draw the conclusion that you're an asset to the hunting community in this state...and a stand up guy. 

I'd like to see this "tribal issue" go away, because I don't think it's an issue.  I wouldn't mind seeing a few threads of hunters venting their frustration about a difference in management and regulation setting between jurisdictions or co-managers, but all too often it turns into racial inequality, treaties are BS, trashy homes, Indians have no regard for the land or natural resources, etc.  I think this state suffers from a serious case of the "Big Lie theory" when it comes to tribal hunting, and it's been passed down to the next generation of "post Boldt era" hunters/fisherman. 

Generally, the foundation for the anti treaty hunting argument is based on cases of poaching, wasting, excessive harvesting, lack of enforcement, etc...and if that's the only argument, then it's not a "tribal issue", as those things are often overstated and are not specific to tribes.  Very few people take the time to educate themselves on what tribal natural resources managers are doing it terms of population monitoring, habitat improvement, habitat protection, holding state/federal agencies accountable for abuse and mismanagement of Land and natural resources, etc.  Everyone is so fixated on the liberal bag limits/season lengths and trying to argue that it is racial inequality, instead of acknowledging that it is separate jurisdictions servicing their citizens differently.  The Feds do not set seasons and bag limits for tribes...they've given regulatory authority to the tribes.  It is tribal governments that set regulations. 

So, I guess my gripe would be...as a fellow native, lets try to move the discussion away from the status quo "tribal hunting issues", by no longer acknowledging that tribal hunting is an issue.  We would better serve ourselves by trying to educate people on why tribes choose to set regulations like we do, and how we ensure that it is not to the detriment of wildlife populations.  We need to be able to offer up perspective as to how we retain the cultural aspect of hunting while using modern technology? why do we feel we need 6 months to do it? where does all the meat go?  Why does it "seem" as if we target trophy animals?  How many tribal members actually hunt?  etc...

If you share that opinion, then I was mistaken and we are 100% in agreement. 

[dreamunelk]

 

I'd like to see this "tribal issue" go away, because I don't think it's an issue.  I wouldn't mind seeing a few threads of hunters venting their frustration about a difference in management and regulation setting between jurisdictions or co-managers, but all to often it turns into racial inequality, treaties are BS, trashy homes, Indians have no regard for the land or natural resources, etc.  I think this state suffers from a serious case of the "Big Lie theory" when it comes to tribal hunting, and it's been passed down to the next generation of "post Boldt era" hunters/fisherman.

Well said!
This is the first step in understanding is choosing not to be ignorant!

[Special T]

Funny, but i think this issue is mostly our/my state gov Screwing up... I think Many issues that really need addressing have more to do with state agencies not following their own rules. That pisses me off more than anything else. Hell if the DNR came up to me and offered keys i'd take them...

[bloodhound]

in the short version, i think if the Indians want special rights and be able to take lots of animals like they used to be able to do they should have to do it the way they used to. do it with home made bows! if they want to use guns they should forfeit all there rights and hunt with the same restrictions that the rest of have to abide by!!!!!!!! end of story.

good example the Eskimos that kill whales every year have to do it in home made canoes with the same equipment they used back in the day. and im ok with that.

im not ok with indian rights for hunting in washington state

[Coastal_native]

I'll let you handle that last one PlateauNDN...glad to see we're making progress.

(in good fun, not meant to be a mockery)

[dreamunelk]

Actually they shoot them!  Some harpoon and then shoot for a more traditional or cultural experience. 

Some of the Coastal tribes used pit traps.  They were dug strategically in and area were elk were likely to travel or in an area were the elk could be herded into it.

So careful what you ask for!

[Wenatcheejay]

This thread is about the DNR not following it's own policy.

I believe the only argument is that WDFW did not address their concerns so DNR turned to an outside force without procedure. That decision violates it's policy. (I think that is what will come of it.)

The "Tribal Issue" is at best secondary and seems to be watering down the facts of the case. I for one won't stay quiet and will keep pointing that out. As hunters & citizens we should all be keeping our eyes on the Washington Government. I don't want to see them looking to designated agents to deal with this. I want general hunting seasons, or spring seasons. If there is also a Tribal season I have no issue, or at best, that's a totally a separate debate. But locked gates accept for only for some?  NO!

[Coastal_native]

Actually they shoot them!  Some harpoon and then shoot for a more traditional or cultural experience. 

Some of the Coastal tribes used pit traps.  They were dug strategically in and area were elk were likely to travel or in an area were the elk could be herded into it.

So careful what you ask for!

It'd definitely be a fun experiment .  I wouldn't mind using a pack of dogs to chase elk into the water while a group of my hunting partners clubbed it over the head till it died...or have my pack of dogs hold an elk at bay so I could walk up and spear it or arrow it.  Lot's of interesting ways to kill elk that would probably send quite a few running off mortally wounded.  I don't know if that would look good for anyone...I'll give it a try next year and post pics of my results on the web with the title "Washington States preferred method for Tribal members to ethically harvest big game"...just joking. 

It would be an amazing experience to harvest an animal with a hand made bow and arrows using some of the traditional building materials...I'll give ya that.

Sorry Wenatcheejay, I've been off topic ever since I started posting on this thread...sometimes it's hard to avoid.  In regards to your post, I would just add that if a tribes ceded area overlaps DNR lands, then tribes should have a say in the management of both the lands and the resources.  You should view that as a positive in most cases...example being, it will probably be the tribes who have the biggest voice of opposition in the "Wild Olympics" campaign...which will ultimately benefit all sportsman.  Other than that, I don't really disagree with your post.  If the tribal government has gate keys, it should only be for enforcement purposes like resource theft and poaching.  If it's forest health through depredation hunting, it would make sense for this to be a joint effort from all stake holders.

[JimmyHoffa]

Good luck CN.  I heard that when one group wanted to do a hunt using traditional methods, things started to become a legal mess.  For example, a whale hunt conducted a few years ago was supposedly planned as being as close to historically accurate as possible; but when word got out the HSUS filed all kinds of lawsuits in federal court based on animal cruelty.  The story is the tribe was forced to use a large rifle to make it humane.  I guess other groups got involved too, which is why it seemed so modern---USCG rules.  This is just stuff I've been reading lately, but haven't found on any official sites. 

[Wenatcheejay]

Actually they shoot them!  Some harpoon and then shoot for a more traditional or cultural experience. 

Some of the Coastal tribes used pit traps.  They were dug strategically in and area were elk were likely to travel or in an area were the elk could be herded into it.

So careful what you ask for!

It'd definitely be a fun experiment .  I wouldn't mind using a pack of dogs to chase elk into the water while a group of my hunting partners clubbed it over the head till it died...or have my pack of dogs hold an elk at bay so I could walk up and spear it or arrow it.  Lot's of interesting ways to kill elk that would probably send quite a few running off mortally wounded.  I don't know if that would look good for anyone...I'll give it a try next year and post pics of my results on the web with the title "Washington States preferred method for Tribal members to ethically harvest big game"...just joking. 

It would be an amazing experience to harvest an animal with a hand made bow and arrows using some of the traditional building materials...I'll give ya that.

Sorry Wenatcheejay, I've been off topic ever since I started posting on this thread...sometimes it's hard to avoid.  In regards to your post, I would just add that if a tribes ceded area overlaps DNR lands, then tribes should have a say in the management of both the lands and the resources.  You should view that as a positive in most cases...example being, it will probably be the tribes who have the biggest voice of opposition in the "Wild Olympics" campaign...which will ultimately benefit all sportsman.  Other than that, I don't really disagree with your post.  If the tribal government has gate keys, it should only be for enforcement purposes like resource theft and poaching.  If it's forest health through depredation hunting, it would make sense for this to be a joint effort from all stake holders.

Understood. In my post I said that I have no issue with a Tribal Season. By that I am aware Tribes will set that themselves. If that becomes a conflict (At That Time) I'd see it as a secondary or separate issue than this one. It is not the same issue as this one is my point. It would be a shame if people lost site of that. I have said repeatedly that I do not see the Muckelshoot Tribe as the issue here. If the keys are taken from them I also do not see that as a Tribe loosing rights either.