Hornady SST

[Rick]

At that far any bullets should expand well. It's the close range shots that they just punch right threw because of the speed of the bullet at close range. When they are out there say 150 yards the bullet slows down and it gives them a chance to expand better.

Thats actually the opposite of what happens.As a general rule,higher velocity means more expansion. The further away the amimal is,the less the bullet will expand.

[marty]

Thanks guys for all the help. I think ill give the barnes bullets a try. Good luck this fall!

[Sabotloader]

[Quote from: carpsniperg2 on Yesterday at 09:39:00 PM]


At that far any bullets should expand well. It's the close range shots that they just punch right threw because of the speed of the bullet at close range. When they are out there say 150 yards the bullet slows down and it gives them a chance to expand better.[/quote]

I would like to agree with this statement... When the bullets are traveling to fast they get in and out of a thin skinned - thin body of a deer before they get a chance to really perform... on the other hand in the longer ranges at a reduced velocity and sufficient energt they have more time to expand correctly.

Most often 'penciling' occurs at close ranges with hot load and a pointy type bullet.  On the other the opposite is true of most HP's - velocity doesn't matter as much as the nose of the bullet reacts to the fluid it encounters on its trip through the animal..

[Rick]

[Quote from: carpsniperg2 on Yesterday at 09:39:00 PM]


At that far any bullets should expand well. It's the close range shots that they just punch right threw because of the speed of the bullet at close range. When they are out there say 150 yards the bullet slows down and it gives them a chance to expand better.

I would like to agree with this statement... When the bullets are traveling to fast they get in and out of a thin skinned - thin body of a deer before they get a chance to really perform... on the other hand in the longer ranges at a reduced velocity and sufficient energt they have more time to expand correctly.

Most often 'penciling' occurs at close ranges with hot load and a pointy type bullet.  On the other the opposite is true of most HP's - velocity doesn't matter as much as the nose of the bullet reacts to the fluid it encounters on its trip through the animal..
[/quote]

I'll disagree with your statement as well. Like I said,as a general rule,velocity promotes expansion. The faster you drive a bullet designed to expand,the faster the bullet will expand on impact.

Thats exactly why controlled expansion bullets like the Barnes X and Nosler Partition were created.

[Sabotloader]

[Quote from: carpsniperg2 on Yesterday at 09:39:00 PM]


At that far any bullets should expand well. It's the close range shots that they just punch right threw because of the speed of the bullet at close range. When they are out there say 150 yards the bullet slows down and it gives them a chance to expand better.

I would like to agree with this statement... When the bullets are traveling to fast they get in and out of a thin skinned - thin body of a deer before they get a chance to really perform... on the other hand in the longer ranges at a reduced velocity and sufficient energt they have more time to expand correctly.

Most often 'penciling' occurs at close ranges with hot load and a pointy type bullet.  On the other the opposite is true of most HP's - velocity doesn't matter as much as the nose of the bullet reacts to the fluid it encounters on its trip through the animal..

I'll disagree with your statement as well. Like I said,as a general rule,velocity promotes expansion. The faster you drive a bullet designed to expand,the faster the bullet will expand on impact.

Thats exactly why controlled expansion bullets like the Barnes X and Nosler Partition were created.
[/quote]

Not to be hard headed on my part but I personally believe your point is wrong… velocity is certainly a factor, but more important is the frontal that the bullet hits the animal with and then the hardness of the nose lead or the nose and the final thing is the medium that is going to cause the expansion. 

The Nosler Partition will expand at a wider range of velocities than any other premium bullet.  It can and will expand at lower velocities as well as it does at the high velocities… Nosler can do that because it will only expand so much no matter what.

Many of the spire point bullets will not react this way as they are to streamlined and do not offer much of frontal contact area… on the other hand when they slow down they will expand better in a shorter distance as long as they have enough energy determined by velocity to expand.  Increasing the meplat of the bullet will always create quicker expansion than does a smaller meplat.

A really good example and I can not find a pictures of it right now… I have pictures if a pointy bullet going through a 2” 2x12 at 25 yards… it cuts a really neat hole – really hard to see through it as it closes back up – really does not do that much damage to the plank at all, but at a 100 yard that same bullet starts with a nice hole but tears the heck out of the back of the board.  It has slowed down enough to start expansion inside the 2x12 and burst from the back of the board.  I wish I could find those pictures…

This has been verified by a lot of other folks also…

[carpsniperg2]

Me and sabot are on the same page here. I can promise you what we are saying is true.

[Rick]

Me and sabot are on the same page here. I can promise you what we are saying is true.

You two are as goofy as the guy that told me a 7mm Remington magnum was no good for deer. He said the bullet went through the deer so fast it didn't have time to expand.

[carpsniperg2]

It's all about bullet design my friend. Some bullets expand better going slower, when it transfers more energy. When a bullet zips right threw a deer then there is still energy wasted. Same thing with rifles. You take some bullets at 1000 yards and you might just as well be shoot a fmj. Others open and preform better at long range like the bergers. Trust me, its science.

[Sabotloader]

Me and sabot are on the same page here. I can promise you what we are saying is true.

You two are as goofy as the guy that told me a 7mm Remington magnum was no good for deer. He said the bullet went through the deer so fast it didn't have time to expand.

Depending on the bullet and the range that could be true... same reason I do not shoot deer with my 300 Win Mag... The bullets I shoot in that gun for elk would not work very well at close range on a whitetail - unless I shoot a big bone causing loss of velocity and enrgy transfer.  Example the Sierra .308-200 Spire Point Boat tail that I use is traveling at 3000 fps with 3996 FPE and at close range would be in and out of a thin skinned - narrowed bodied whitetail so fast the bullet would never even know it passed through the animal. Although shooting the length of the body would solve the problem, probably.

Now shoot that bullet into a thick skinned elk, especially a muddy bull in rut even at closer ranges and - that would be a different story.  And as the range increases more energy will be transferred in the animal.

[Dirty Mike]

Yes blsum and I have spent some time with shooting different bullets most copper jacket bullets wont mushroom at low vel. I shot a good size blacktail with the sst @ 75yards and did very little damage exit looked like entrance atleast it hit heart the barnez tmz only need 1000 fps to mushroom which is most muzzys out to 200 yards my mule deer droped in his tracks from about 75 to 90 yards blsums was around 30 to 50 and bullets was recovered

[jstone]

Ya reading all the posts about the sst is  . I shot my cow elk last year with the sst and yes the exit looked like the entrence. Lucky has it double lunged her. Maybe i will have to switch to the Barnes"?

[JColony]

I gotta say, I've been shooting the SST's for a few years now and have loved how well they shoot outa my gun.  But all this I'm hearing about expansion problems is making me think I ought to try out those TMZ's.  I got drawn for the Observatory quality muzzleloader hunt and would be pretty angry if I get an opportunity to whack a nice bull and my bullets fail.

[WSU]

Me and sabot are on the same page here. I can promise you what we are saying is true.

You two are as goofy as the guy that told me a 7mm Remington magnum was no good for deer. He said the bullet went through the deer so fast it didn't have time to expand.

Depending on the bullet and the range that could be true... same reason I do not shoot deer with my 300 Win Mag... The bullets I shoot in that gun for elk would not work very well at close range on a whitetail - unless I shoot a big bone causing loss of velocity and enrgy transfer.  Example the Sierra .308-200 Spire Point Boat tail that I use is traveling at 3000 fps with 3996 FPE and at close range would be in and out of a thin skinned - narrowed bodied whitetail so fast the bullet would never even know it passed through the animal. Although shooting the length of the body would solve the problem, probably.

Now shoot that bullet into a thick skinned elk, especially a muddy bull in rut even at closer ranges and - that would be a different story.  And as the range increases more energy will be transferred in the animal.

I can tell you for a fact that about 5 whitetails disagree.  The 300 win absolutely flattens them at ranges from 30 yards to 300 (in my testing).  I can also say that a 200 grain sierra expands, as that is the bullet I shoot.  I also tend to agree that bullets tend to over-expand at close range.  I've had accubonds basically explode when shot at close range. 

It seems to me the key to muzzy bullets would be reliable expansion at low velocity.  Even at the muzzle, a muzzy bullet is not going very fast, especially by modern bullet standards.