Rayonier selling permits to hunt it's land for $225: The Longview Daily News

[Buckhunter24]

Private property or not, the timber industry has made a deal with the tax man.  In exchange for providing a set of public benefits they get a low property tax valuation compared to their neighbors.  The way these property tax breaks work on the county level (just sat in on an auditor/assesor presentation) the reduced tax income from designated timberland etc. does not lead to a net loss of revenue because the difference is picked up by homowners and businesses.  In our county the average homeowner already pays about $20 per year to support what is mostly designated timberland owned by big industry.  That's fine and dandy as long as the public is getting their full public benefit from this tax break.  I own timberland pay an obscenely low rate on my timberland vs. my home so I can see it both ways.  PS. Here, most land that could be developed was chopped up and filled with McMansions during the housing boom, leaving off the grid timberland that would be difficult to develop (or outsource to China).

And you have the right to decide who comes onto your land and when. The timber company does too.

I have no doubt that the timber companies get great tax breaks, but they also have a lot of hoops to jump through with the state. Fuel reduction, buffer compliance, leave trees, and so on. Any of these are not met the state keeps a percentage from the operation and/or fines.

[bigtex]

people access these lands get hurt and sue the timber companies...sorry folks there's a whole need breed of cats out there and they suck,or should I say vacume,we will see if the censor's kick in

 

Good point to bring up Rasbo.
Those of you who do get permits from timberlands (such as Hancock) usually have to sign a document basically saying you are entering at your own risk and if you get injured/die it is your fault. Obviously landowners who let people enter their lands freely don't have this "contract".

I know of a coal company who for many years would let people enter their lands as long as they got permission from the company. Basically all you had to do was go to their office give them your info and they gave you a card about twice the size of a business card with some basic regulations on it. About 6/7 years ago they went from permission only to no trespassing and there were two reasons, vandalism (dumping, etc) and liability issues.

[True Sportsman]

Dude I can not even read sheet like this ... we all know its coming and we still are doing nothen but reading about it ....The fricken government should step in and TAX THE LIVING FRAKEN CRAP OUT OF THEM !!!!!! and for those who have money to spend on this type of hunting are setting the stage for disaster ...and I would never support such bullsheet knowing it is going again my fellow hunters and its now taking the meaning out of what hunting is all about ... So if you go an support these dumba$$$$$$ please do not come bragging to me about it .... THIS IS BS !!!!!

It is private land and they may do as they please. The answer isn't to tax the crap out of them. The answer should be for everyone to help police this ground and prevent misuse by idiots. If nothing illegal is happening, the timber companies are happy and access remains open. If there is a bunch of dumping, theft, and poaching what do you expect them to do? Leave the gates open anyway?

[True Sportsman]

I think trying to control what a private landowner can do with their property is a direct move against property rights. Let the market drive what they do, if government starts controlling timber property rights it will not know at what point to stop.

For me this is real simple, who owns the property? If you owned it would you like someone telling you what you can and cannot do?

Public lands are basically free to hunt and a large portion of this state is public. 

Excellent point.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Dude I can not even read sheet like this ... we all know its coming and we still are doing nothen but reading about it ....The fricken government should step in and TAX THE LIVING FRAKEN CRAP OUT OF THEM !!!!!! and for those who have money to spend on this type of hunting are setting the stage for disaster ...and I would never support such bullsheet knowing it is going again my fellow hunters and its now taking the meaning out of what hunting is all about ... So if you go an support these dumba$$$$$$ please do not come bragging to me about it .... THIS IS BS !!!!!

Unfortunately Bowhunter there are a lot of people that are willing to spend this much or more to hunt timberland. The Snoqualmie Tree Farm sold out it's 800 permits at $225 a piece in about 2.5-3 months. White River has sold about 600 of it's 800 permits at $225. And Kapowsin as we all know sells out it's 1,000-1,200 permits depending on the year at $300-350 a piece in about a month. I know some people who have several of these permits.

  yeah thats fine but I do not agree with it .... just BS ... 

[BOWHUNTER45]

So for the people that are upset about this, is it because they are charging a fee or limiting the vehicle access to only people with permits.
If the permits were like 5 bucks or free to the first 175 applicants would that be ok?
Are you more upset that the lands will be closed to motorvehicle access if you dont have a permit compared to the alls welcome of the past, which led to tons of vandalisum, dumping and stealing?
I for one was kinda glad way back in the day when the snoqualmie (hankock) lands went to a vehicle access permit, alot less vehicles, trash and i worried less about being away from my rig all day knowing that the methheads could not be cruising the roads..

NOW I May agree with the part on leaving your vehicle but the rest is still BS 

[rtspring]

this year its this much, then they raise it, then raise it again. They have you that hunt on these lands by the balls, and they will see to it they get every cent they can out of it.

See what it costs to hunt this land 5 years from now? I bet you won't support it then.. Andi f you do you might just have the place to yourselves. If they are getting ANY and I mean ANY tax break from our state or government, paying for a permit to access it should not be allowed..

COMPLETE   B.S.

[Bigshooter]

RCW 84.33.010
Legislative findings. 

As a result of the study and analysis of systems of taxation of standing timber and forest lands by the forest tax committee pursuant to Senate Concurrent Resolution No. 30 of the 41st session of the legislature, and the recommendations of the committee based thereon, the legislature hereby finds that:

     (1) The public welfare requires that this state's system for taxation of timber and forest lands be modernized to assure the citizens of this state and its future generations the advantages to be derived from the continuous production of timber and forest products from the significant area of privately owned forests in this state. It is this state's policy to encourage forestry and restocking and reforesting of such forests so that present and future generations will enjoy the benefits which forest areas provide in enhancing water supply, in minimizing soil erosion, storm and flood damage to persons or property, in providing a habitat for wild game, in providing scenic and recreational spaces, in maintaining land areas whose forests contribute to the natural ecological equilibrium, and in providing employment and profits to its citizens and raw materials for products needed by everyone.


THE ABOVE ARE THE PUBLIC BENEFITS THAT THE LEGISLATURE FOUND JUSTIFY THE SIGNIFICANT TAX BREAK OUTLINED IN WA. STATE LAW. If the "recreational spaces" talked about above were meant "pay for play" how is this benefitting the public??  And even if it isn't laid out precisely that they are getting a tax break partly for providing recreation, this is something that can be changed by the people with a tweek to this law. Remeber, the people are ultimately in charge.

I think this permit provides everything that you are saying that it doesn't.  If a timber company totally looked the public out and they still got a tax break I think you would have a good arguement.  But the public is still going to be able to use this private land.

[Battle Ready]

The part that bugs me the most is that timber companies have said it time and time again...were gonna close it up to the public if things do not change. I for one pic up others trash along roads and in the woods so that it might help..but its almost impossible to keep it going. Ive seen it coming, and I don't think this will be the last of it. I have no idea how much the timber companies have spent cleaning up the damage in one way or another, and if it would wash out how much they will have to pay in taxes later down the road, but I would imagine the numbers will be close. Who knows really, I just wish it would have been for reasons other than damage to their property...because greed would have been something different...but they warned us many times.

Back in the eastern part of the country..you pretty much have to pay to hunt anywere or else hunt the small spots of public...then you have combat hunting at its finest. I for one will be OK with walking in behind gates...as long as I have lots of space to hunt in...it could be worse.

[NWHydroprint]

There was also a lot of land back in the day that was given to big timber companies from the state. There is still state land that is land locked by big timber companies.
If it wasn't for the tax breaks these timber companies would not have survived the timber crashes so in a way they do owe the people of washington.
What we are seeing is them trying to cash in on trophy hunting like in the midwest and east coast were groups spend 20,000 and private hunting.
How much money do they get to write off for tree damage from animals easy cure would be to close these areas to hunting and charge them $5,000 to $10,000 per tag so they can sell it or let the public hunt and leave theses areas open. Remember in the state of WA wildlife is owned buy the state.
NWH

[blackhorn]

Charging to hunt wouldn't be a big deal for me if they only owned a couple thousand acres of land, but that is not the case.  Timber companies own vast amounts of land and charging just seems wrong.  I like knowing that if I feel the need to go romp around out in the woods I still can without having to fork over a paycheck to do so.  I call B/S, how many years have they been functioning without the need to charge? I guess through my eyes i just see the greed and when the potential to affect so many of us is there I also become very concerned.

[logger]

As soon as the tax breaks are gone, you will see massive clear cutting and big for sale signs on what was once tree growing ground. Every landowner in the state big or small can  have there land classified as timber or open space, It's not really the big tax break you guy's think it is, Timber co. has instances of what we call a taking of property in which because a new law was passed what could have been logged 5 years ago they can't now but yet the co. invested money in planting back the trees and maintaing the trees but will see know return on the trees, then they can get a tax break on that ground just like anybody else. It cost lottsa money to maintain the roads and when the snow run run off washes out roads, your talkin big money. Way better than the forest circus when they have a problem road they just close it.

[True Sportsman]

As soon as the tax breaks are gone, you will see massive clear cutting and big for sale signs on what was once tree growing ground. Every landowner in the state big or small can  have there land classified as timber or open space, It's not really the big tax break you guy's think it is, Timber co. has instances of what we call a taking of property in which because a new law was passed what could have been logged 5 years ago they can't now but yet the co. invested money in planting back the trees and maintaing the trees but will see know return on the trees, then they can get a tax break on that ground just like anybody else. It cost lottsa money to maintain the roads and when the snow run run off washes out roads, your talkin big money. Way better than the forest circus when they have a problem road they just close it.

Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about.

[PolarBear]

 

[cem3434]

woohoo i'm in, just so I have a place to ride my ATV. Hopefully with the money they generate they can hire some security and get the dumping stopped.

  You can only ride Evans Creek and Elbe Hills so much before you get sick of it!