talked to a biologist today who said we need wolves

[Curly]

I doubt the department of fish and wildlife could manage a lemonade stand correctly let alone wolves in this state 

 

They can't even manage cougar and bear populations now........what will happen when 15 BP's of wolves get added to the mix?

They are starting to really have a lot of elk permits for the St Helens herd, so maybe they are starting to get a clue that they need to thin that herd, but why the hell didn't they increase the elk permits for St Helens several years ago?  

[twistiron]

fair enough, i could not agree more that the optimal solution would be eradication but lets face it since non profits get all their court fees waivered its a never ending battle. i take it some of you dont see eye to eye with me fine, but honestly we need to find common ground, with that being said there is none but you get my point. if wolves have to go its vigilante justice that is needed, there is no way that the govenment can be convinced they should not be here. that is the reason that i pointed out that the hunting a tapping season needs to quota based and not time limit to effectively control the population, they are sneaky little critters. it may be the case wolves kill for fun, i have not seen it but will look into it more. either way there is no way that fact alone will win the battle to get rid of them. all i am trying to say is there are tons of people on here that want a solution yet when i mention that we should work toward a solution that may actually be possible, its lambasted . any one on the forum actually work for the WDFG, so we can get an inside update? the other option is we sit back and watch as the hippies get all the wolves they want. 

[Bean Counter]

I don't like the idea of culling wolves into complete extinction. Moreover, I'm not 100% against them being in any state that I want to hunt in. I just want them on the brink of extinction--and I want to be able to hunt 'em 

[rasbo]

I would never vote or be in favor of eradication of any critter,except moles maybe.But strong and intense management is what will be needed to keep populations at a fair balance for all folks concerned.This management would need a non biased program that deals with population totals not population opinions if that makes sense.Further more get the dam feds out of the equation,states need to have their own decisions on matters...I would be more concerned about the gray wolf if it was near extinction but its not at all,they just aren't running around like in the 1800s...The extremists on both sides of the argument make bad fodder for any quick and responsible action to take place in my mind.

[300UltraMagShooter]

This is my  , I think a properly managed wolf population could be good for washington hunting. You dont see wolf packs going into herds and killing the biggest trophy bulls, they will cull the weak sick ones from the herd, leaving it stronger future reprodution. i am sure none of us want to wast our hard erned bull tag on a sickly small one, i want a trophy. well unfortunatly that sickly boy is going to be around next year to knock a cow up and just like with humans weak parents make weak kids, and the cycle continues. 

Amazing that this line of thought still persist.  This could NOT be further from the truth.  Turn off the Animal Plant channel and check out what wolves do in the real world.   

 

That Lolo elk herd was just full of weak and sickly elk. . . 

Actually, Animal Planet got that line of thought from our great leader Charles Darwin.  Kids have been force fed a lot of nonsense from the time they were able to tie their shoes and now we are ALL forced to deal with many of them as grown "adults".  They bought it hook, line and sinker... and no one wants to believe they were so easily tricked... and so  on and on it goes....

[bearpaw]

I met a biologist today who was working with weyco to allow access on there land for the early cow hunts for youth and disabled. I made a smart ass comment to him about not having to worry about the herds being to big because in ten years we won't have any elk because of the wolfs. Now he said "we need the wolfs to help balance out the system. We just have to work together and manage the packs" I asked him how the hell he plans on doing that and he said " we are learning from Idahos mistakes and it will really help with all the elk starving to death every winter and that they were here before and it isn't right to exterminate a entire species from a region." This guy is off he's rocker he's nuts. With people like him working for the wdfg we are all screwed. My parting comment to him was " its to bad my kids won't get to hunt elk like I have." All he said is "washington has a good wolf plan and it won't effect the numbers like I think". I don't think I made a friend with him today damn!

The only reason there could possibly be too many elk anywhere is because hunters have not been allowed to shoot enough animals. There are thousands of hunters in this state who will shoot as many elk as WDFW allows them to shoot. Herd management is not a valid reason for needing wolves, that notion is the product of scewed science created by corrupt biologists to support non-hunting agendas.

Hunting is the best tool because managers can control how many elk are harvested each season via season length. Wolves have already been proven to be an uncontrollable factor. Simply look at the recent history of what used to be some of the greatest elk herds, northern yellowstone elk herd, bitterroot elk herd, payette elk herd, and the lolo elk herd. Most of these herds are now at 10% to 50% of their previous numbers. Agencies like pointing out that only certain elk herds are in decline, lets take another look in 10 more years. If Idaho successfully brings down their wolf population they might save their herds, but if wolves continue to grow in numbers in these other units, that will impact those elk numbers too.

To the north of us is Banff National Park, no hunting, and a once thriving elk population continues in decline due to growing wolf numbers. Woodland Caribou herds are in danger of extinction due to growing wolf numbers. The yellowstone herd is another case in point, when a study was done in 2009 elk numbers had dropped to 6000ish, now they are below 5000.

Read about this 2009 MSU Yellowstone Elk Study: http://www.montana.edu/cpa/news/nwview.php?article=7324

Read: The role of wolf predation in the Extirpation of Woodland Caribou in Pukaskwa National Park
http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/part_1_caribou_extinction_PNP.pdf
http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/part_2_caribou_extinction_PNP.pdf
http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/part_3_caribou_extinction_PNP.pdf

It's not hard to see what will happen to Washington's best elk herds, moose, and last caribou herd. Recent history has already shown us the future.

[Killmore]

So the biologist said "we need the wolves to help balance out the system" but haven't we as humans changed that by vaccinating ourselves and living longer which has created over crowding into their territory?  So, wouldn't that mean less wolves due to human encroachment?

[Recurve-Elk]

Well here is my two cents on this subject.  If an animal was once native to an area.  I believe Washingtons native wolf species was the timber wolf, and what has been introduced into the states is the red wolf... At any rate, if the animal was once native and then hunted off by us, well I think that species of animal has the right to live here too.  However this species of animal needs to be managed just like any other animal.  Given hunting seasons.  I think it is greedy for us to say "well the wolves will kill off elk that the hunters could of easily taken."  I don't care if my hunting gets harder.  Wolves are cool animals and they were here probably long before our species. 

Before you rip me apart from my above statements read further.   Now here is where my frame of mind changes.  Do wolfs reproduce as crazy as coyotes?  Would they be unmanageable?  If yes, then I agree with the most of you, don't bring them back we are just creating problems.  They may simply just not fit in todays environmental statistics.

I am studying environmental studies/biology ecology, so I naturally look at things from a non biased view. 

SO PLEASE, if you wish to discuss this topic please don't go too hard on me I am a hunter too and I look at all thoughts reasonably.  I've seen these threads get blown way out of proportion, either in the wolves defense or against the wolves.     If you read my whole post you would see that I am basically undecided.  Both proposals have their positives and negatives.  For me to come to a certain conclusion would have to study the wolves and our ecosystem extensively.  I will restate, from my knowledge I believe the wolves being introduced to the states is a non native species and I agree they have no business here.  Timber wolves on the other hand are the ones I thought were native.  Again I am just speaking from prior posts and such I have no personal research on this topic.

[shorthair15]

just remember. when it comes time to introduce wolves to othere areas like to the st helens area. you need to make your voice heard more than ever if you hunt these areas. i think they are pushing hard to get a pack in this area as they always talk about animals starving there in the winter. wont surprise me if it happens sonner or later. just my i doubt they will learn from idaho and montana. i dont want them here .i will be there to let them know that if they have a public meeting on this topic. pressure from hunters and the public is the only thing that will change them from a introduction in this area. i know nobody wants to hear this.

[mtman]

Elk are a food source. When there are plenty of people out there that need the food. I will not suport wolves one bit, no matter what the reason.

[Wenatcheejay]

I doubt the department of fish and wildlife could manage a lemonade stand correctly let alone wolves in this state 

Lemonade stands are illegal without the proper city permits and lawful handwashing facilities. All OSHA & DOH regulations must be followed. The cops will be called. You could go to jail.

[Wenatcheejay]

This is my  , I think a properly managed wolf population could be good for washington hunting. You dont see wolf packs going into herds and killing the biggest trophy bulls, they will cull the weak sick ones from the herd, leaving it stronger future reprodution. i am sure none of us want to wast our hard erned bull tag on a sickly small one, i want a trophy. well unfortunatly that sickly boy is going to be around next year to knock a cow up and just like with humans weak parents make weak kids, and the cycle continues. 

Amazing that this line of thought still persist.  This could NOT be further from the truth.  Turn off the Animal Plant channel and check out what wolves do in the real world.   

  Troll, Plant, liar, not worth feeding the  Machias. Interesting, the hatred of the human race in the end there isn't it?

[Elkaholic daWg]

This is my  , I think a properly managed wolf population could be good for washington hunting. You dont see wolf packs going into herds and killing the biggest trophy bulls, they will cull the weak sick ones from the herd, leaving it stronger future reprodution. i am sure none of us want to wast our hard erned bull tag on a sickly small one, i want a trophy. well unfortunatly that sickly boy is going to be around next year to knock a cow up and just like with humans weak parents make weak kids, and the cycle continues. 

Amazing that this line of thought still persist.  This could NOT be further from the truth.  Turn off the Animal Plant channel and check out what wolves do in the real world.   

  Troll, Plant, liar, not worth feeding the  Machias. Interesting, the hatred of the human race in the end there isn't it?

   

Was thinking that Myself.   Spike only? trophy?

[Little Dave]

I am studying environmental studies/biology ecology, so I naturally look at things from a non biased view. 

I like the thought you are giving the matter.  It is important to move from the position of being undecided.  Many, including me, believe that if this is executed the wrong way there will be serious and long lasting consequences to wildlife management in our area.

You may be pouring into the science side of the matter, but don't negect the finance part.  The two go hand in hand.  Somebody needs to pay for wildlife management.  Is it the theoretical wolf tourism?  Is it an increase in sales tax?  Money from Congress that puts the nation further in debt?  Wolf tags?  Whatever your conclusion on this might be, don't forget to ask if your plan is sustainable.  How is it going to be funded?

Wolves are not endangered, they are extirpated.
Just like bees, also beneficial to the environment, when they come into your house, you don't need to wait for the whole hive to enter before you start controlling the population.  There are enough bees elsewhere to keep the number that you would like to have in your house without endangering the species.  You can put your plan into action right away.

Please test your plan against the state's plan and send them a note.

[ribka]

fair enough, i could not agree more that the optimal solution would be eradication but lets face it since non profits get all their court fees waivered its a never ending battle. i take it some of you dont see eye to eye with me fine, but honestly we need to find common ground, with that being said there is none but you get my point. if wolves have to go its vigilante justice that is needed, there is no way that the govenment can be convinced they should not be here. that is the reason that i pointed out that the hunting a tapping season needs to quota based and not time limit to effectively control the population, they are sneaky little critters. it may be the case wolves kill for fun, i have not seen it but will look into it more. either way there is no way that fact alone will win the battle to get rid of them. all i am trying to say is there are tons of people on here that want a solution yet when i mention that we should work toward a solution that may actually be possible, its lambasted . any one on the forum actually work for the WDFG, so we can get an inside update? the other option is we sit back and watch as the hippies get all the wolves they want.

Flawed logic to compromise with them. These pro-wolf groups have an agenda and the agenda is they want to end all hunting. The wolves targeting the weak and sick is another big myth. They wipe out all of the moose and elk calves every year. Wolves also have a tendency to kill eat a small portion of animal and leave it rot.

 The compromise with the would be something like 20 wolf tags issued a year at most and that would not even begin to control population. Look at ID and what they are doing this year. Increasing tags, allowing trapping and reducing non res tag fees. Might be too late for states like MT, ID and parts of WY.

I used to think like you moving out here from the E coast re wolves and game management. I then started spending time hiking and hunting areas in ID, MT and WY where the wolves were re-introduced. Really destroyed the elk, moose, deer populations. Now the wolves are targeting livestock more and more.

Instead of being indoctrinated  studying books take some time and go out and hike and see the wolf damage first hand in the neighboring states. Don't bother carrying a weapon because we all know wolves would never ever attack a human being

Wolf tourism? Most people I know who luv wolves have never hiked more than 200 yds from a parking lot