talked to a biologist today who said we need wolves

[Alan K]

Wolf tourism? Most people I know who luv wolves have never hiked more than 200 yds from a parking lot

Ain't that the truth! 

[Alan K]

So of you wolf supporters (in any number), how do you guys like the increase in the cougar populations throughout our state? They're practically out of control in a number of places and there is no hope to control it without the use of hounds or other alternative methods. Boot hunting just won't get it done, the success percentage will never catch up to the kitten survival rate.

The exact same thing will happen of wolves.  Wolves are every bit as capable of being one hell of an elusive animal if they want to be.  The reason everyone had been seeing wolves through the years in Idaho was the fact that they had no reason to fear humans. They didn't have to be elusive. I'd bet that overall there will be fewer and fewer sightings despite the still increasing number of animals. The growth in their numbers there won't begin to slow until their food sources (our deer, elk, and moose) dwindle, not because of a handful of trapping permits and boot hunters.  There are just too many in too rugged of country.

And do you really think Washington will allow trapping or any method other than dumb luck encounters while boot hunting to ever kill one? I certainly don't, not with the way they've axed hound hunting for cougar and bear, and baiting for bear.  If Idaho doesn't have the voting and lobbying power to effectively manage their population until it's too late and essentially in dire need of it, do you really think we'll ever be able to with the demographics of Washington?  If so, you're very naive, I'm sorry.

[elkboy]

We certainly would need management at a regional scale for a predator that has demonstrated 30% annual population growth rates.  Look what we do with elk- hit them hard in agricultural GMUs where the constituency does not want more elk in the fields, and restrict take in various ways in GMUs without agriculture.  The same could be done with wolves- and by using them as a recreational resource.  Look at how they have been hunted recently in Idaho and Montana- using predator calls and other methods.  There is a serious predator hunting contingency developing that enjoys hunting them for their own sake. 

I do agree with many, in that I have little trust in the urban voting bloc in this state to actually permit the beginning of a controlled wolf hunt. 

And finally, we cannot lay all problems at the feet of wolves, or any other predator.  Urban development, fire suppression, intensification of forest management practices affecting browse- we have a lot of fights to fight as conservationist/sportsmen.  I suggest that to fight them effectively, we need to pull back from radical positions (especially the shoot-em-all mentality) that buy us precious little ground with the common voter.   

[rtspring]

We certainly would need management at a regional scale for a predator that has demonstrated 30% annual population growth rates.  Look what we do with elk- hit them hard in agricultural GMUs where the constituency does not want more elk in the fields, and restrict take in various ways in GMUs without agriculture.  The same could be done with wolves- and by using them as a recreational resource.  Look at how they have been hunted recently in Idaho and Montana- using predator calls and other methods.  There is a serious predator hunting contingency developing that enjoys hunting them for their own sake. 

I do agree with many, in that I have little trust in the urban voting bloc in this state to actually permit the beginning of a controlled wolf hunt. 

And finally, we cannot lay all problems at the feet of wolves, or any other predator.  Urban development, fire suppression, intensification of forest management practices affecting browse- we have a lot of fights to fight as conservationist/sportsmen.  I suggest that to fight them effectively, we need to pull back from radical positions (especially the shoot-em-all mentality) that buy us precious little ground with the common voter.   

You are correct we cannot lay all problems to wolves, thats why we don't want them to be on top or among the problems we already have. There is not one good thing you can tell me and many others that will come from bring these wolves back to this state.
many have tried and so far I have not heard one yet...  Wanna see wolves go to Idaho, I hear they have wolf watching now instead of elk hunting..

[3nails]

Sick of all the chatter BS.  Washington 100% does not need another breed of predators. Weather they were here before or not.   If in fact our state government had a positive track of management ever, I might have a touch of faith in their ability to manage this.

Idaho 2008, I watched pregnant cow elk give birth to calves on rocky ledges that goats only tread because it was the only place the wolves would not follow.  Then once the calves tried to stand they fell to their deaths.

If you think that wolves only kill the weak and sickly animals you are a bigger part of the problem than the cure.  I wish all the Jack wagons that continue to bitch but are to scared or lazy to deal the situation, be it by a bullet or a pen should have their man cards and hunting licenses revolked.  Just my opinion!   

 

[twistiron]

i have been hitting all the onling info i can get my hands on everything from saveelk.com to forwolves.com. i must say i was mistaken and have to appologize for leading you all astray in my beleifes, i had a miss understanding, i thought the reintroduction was of native wolves, not a invasive species . my appologies. is there a chapter of save elk for washington? or a simlar action group? i read the liberal notes as well and even there arguments show a direct reflection of an invasive spiecies, to go from 0 - almost 500 in less then 10 years and that is with an anti-wolf govenor. well i think the only truth to my earlier statment is the vigilante justice. we also cannot be suprised when packs start springing up everywhere, if you go to the forwolves.com they show you where the originals have all dispersed to and honestly the area covered is huge. i also still think we need to get these wolfs on a mangement plan, so we can get them off their safety net lists. once again my appologies 

[sebek556]

thank you for taking to time to do some research 

[mulehunter]

thank you for taking to time to do some research 

   

Mulehunter

[norsepeak]

according to their proposed wolf mgmt plan, the wolves that are coming into washington are one of three subspecies of canadian grey wolves, which is genetically that same as what was here to begin with which in a round about way makes them native.  At least in the eyes of the jaded bios and college proffessors working on it.  Like any other predator, we cannot have them unrestricted in this day and age.  Washington has too high of human population with too small of geographic area to allow them to breed unregulated.  Unfortunately our game dept cannot see what other stated have done and learn from it, so we will end up with too many predators and decimated elk heards causing revenue to plumet.  Then the game dept will start whining wondering why nobody is hunting and why their budgets are crashing.  We need to be proactive and get involved as a group...all hunters as one group.  You guys want hound hunting back??? it's not hard to do, we just need to get organized and get an intiative on the ballet, then educate the people and get it voted back in...our problem is "we" cannot get organized as ONE group.  We are all too busy working for a living while the tree huggers and fund raising and basically kicking our butts in the media and the political arenas.  We have to get together as ONE group to fight this or our kids will never get to know the joys of hearing a bull elk screaming in their faces as it come into bow range.  Just my 

[mazama]

If you put tribal hunting and wolfs together it ain't gonna be good,witness the spike only rule plus whiteriver unit,we have a lot more people and a lot less land than Montana.

[runamuk]

What burns my ass is that the wolves coming in are gonna destroy the existing NATIVE packs we had slowly making a comeback.  I still am ok with native wolves and support management.

If I read one more time how they only take the sick and the weak I will 
Wolves are canines they are opportunistic and will kill what is easy if given the opportunity.  They target vulnerable animals.  Vulnerable means unprotected and easier to target.  Lets look at elk herd dynamics for one minute, cows and calves usually comprise the largest herds and also the most protected group.  Singular bulls or small satellite groups of bulls are more vulnerable than a group of cows even sick weak ones.  Canines divide and conquer and it is far easier to cut one animal out of a herd of 5 than a herd of 50 so anyone who thinks big strong bulls wont be targeted is dreaming.  These are all animals they all have a sort of standard operating procedure it isnt rocket science to watch and learn...  We have predator problems in this state they need to be managed or the only thing that will being viewed in the wild will be crows and skirrels...

And if this state truly felt unrestricted predators was a good thing they would have no regulation of hunting humans are also predators as much a s some of them try to deny it... this state simply follows the money whoever is paying them or costing them wins...maybe the hunting public needs to start suing  works for the anti's....

[Huntbear]

What burns my ass is that the wolves coming in are gonna destroy the existing NATIVE packs we had slowly making a comeback.  I still am ok with native wolves and support management.

If I read one more time how they only take the sick and the weak I will 
Wolves are canines they are opportunistic and will kill what is easy if given the opportunity.  They target vulnerable animals.  Vulnerable means unprotected and easier to target.  Lets look at elk herd dynamics for one minute, cows and calves usually comprise the largest herds and also the most protected group.  Singular bulls or small satellite groups of bulls are more vulnerable than a group of cows even sick weak ones.  Canines divide and conquer and it is far easier to cut one animal out of a herd of 5 than a herd of 50 so anyone who thinks big strong bulls wont be targeted is dreaming.  These are all animals they all have a sort of standard operating procedure it isnt rocket science to watch and learn...  We have predator problems in this state they need to be managed or the only thing that will being viewed in the wild will be crows and skirrels...

And if this state truly felt unrestricted predators was a good thing they would have no regulation of hunting humans are also predators as much a s some of them try to deny it... this state simply follows the money whoever is paying them or costing them wins...maybe the hunting public needs to start suing  works for the anti's....

 

[Elkaholic daWg]

What burns my ass is that the wolves coming in are gonna destroy the existing NATIVE packs we had slowly making a comeback.  I still am ok with native wolves and support management.

If I read one more time how they only take the sick and the weak I will 
Wolves are canines they are opportunistic and will kill what is easy if given the opportunity.  They target vulnerable animals.  Vulnerable means unprotected and easier to target.  Lets look at elk herd dynamics for one minute, cows and calves usually comprise the largest herds and also the most protected group.  Singular bulls or small satellite groups of bulls are more vulnerable than a group of cows even sick weak ones.  Canines divide and conquer and it is far easier to cut one animal out of a herd of 5 than a herd of 50 so anyone who thinks big strong bulls wont be targeted is dreaming.  These are all animals they all have a sort of standard operating procedure it isnt rocket science to watch and learn...  We have predator problems in this state they need to be managed or the only thing that will being viewed in the wild will be crows and skirrels...

And if this state truly felt unrestricted predators was a good thing they would have no regulation of hunting humans are also predators as much a s some of them try to deny it... this state simply follows the money whoever is paying them or costing them wins...maybe the hunting public needs to start suing  works for the anti's....

 

  x2

[twistiron]

so i have been breaking down the wolf management plan, trying to get a picture of where WDFW is looking to go with it and there are so many glaring incosistancies. one of the biggest so far is when they took the poles for wolf support when it came to asking the opionion of hunters the went with 12 year olds and up? thats not the voting populas, dont get me wrong i think it is great the future generation is involved but a 12 year old voting and if that is what they want why are the other poles 18 and up? its not like the results where strictly used to show satifaction, these numbers where used to sway the legilators. i am still reading the report but it screams  .why is the managment data based on the conservation data from 99 in wisconson? we have states that are a much closer ecosystem(elk and other apex predators) to ours currently fighting the wolf battle. plan even stated that wolves fed on elk will be larger and have bigger liters. look at ID the avg littler is 3.5 - 4.5. i think "norsepeak" hit it right when he said we are getting beat by the tree huggers. back to studying! this is not over you all got me fired up!

[GoldTip]

Nice bull for your Dad... to bad he broke that one eyeguard ....as far as the bio ..he needs to go back to school and study some more 

Yeah, it would be too bad, if the eye guard was actually broke.