talked to a biologist today who said we need wolves

[Greyson]

We need to let the game biologists manage the animals scientifically.  Cattlemen, timber companies, P.E.T.A., H.S.U.S., A.L.F. and all the other special interest groups have their agendas and get in the way of proper wildlife management.  Predator/prey numbers will find equilibrium. 
So I am not misunderstood, I look forward to hunting wolves when their numbers are stable. Wolves are neither good nor are they bad, they are predators, like coyotes, cougars and us.  Don't let doom and gloom scenarios carry the day.

I'm not sure how you can slap cattlemen in the face like that and lump them in with likes of P.E.T.A..  They don't have an agenda, they have a livelihood.  Big difference partner

I wasn't trying to disparage cattlemen.  They simply have their interests, like any other special interest group.  You and me included.

[buck man]

Sick of all the chatter BS.  Washington 100% does not need another breed of predators. Weather they were here before or not.   If in fact our state government had a positive track of management ever, I might have a touch of faith in their ability to manage this.

Idaho 2008, I watched pregnant cow elk give birth to calves on rocky ledges that goats only tread because it was the only place the wolves would not follow.  Then once the calves tried to stand they fell to their deaths.

If you think that wolves only kill the weak and sickly animals you are a bigger part of the problem than the cure.  I wish all the Jack wagons that continue to bitch but are to scared or lazy to deal the situation, be it by a bullet or a pen should have their man cards and hunting licenses revolked.  Just my opinion!   


 

 

[7.62Warbird]

Wolf facts:
Wolves have 5-6 pups a year.
Wolves eat 15-20 deer/elk per year.
Wolf lifespan 10-20 years.

2011: 30 wolves eat 450 deer/elk
2012: 105 wolves eat 1575 deer/elk
2013: 367 wolves eat 5,505 deer/elk
2014: 1,284 wolves eat 19,260 deer/elk
2015: 4,494 wolves eat 67,410 deer/elk
2016: 15,729 wolves eat 235,935 deer/elk
2017: 55,051 wolves eat 825,772 deer/elk
2018: 192,678 wolves eat 2,890,177 deer/elk
2019: 674,373 wolves eat 10,115,595 deer/elk
2020: 2,360,305 wolves eat 35,404,582 deer/elk

 I used the low average numbers for calculations.
 Within the 10 year life span of the original 15 pairs of wolves anyone with a 6th grade education can see that wolves will decimate deer/elk populations statewide.
 You would truly have to be a ratard to think we need wolves in Washington or any other state for that matter.

[runamuk]

Wolf facts:
Wolves have 5-6 pups a year.
Wolves eat 15-20 deer/elk per year.
Wolf lifespan 10-20 years.

2011: 30 wolves eat 450 deer/elk
2012: 105 wolves eat 1575 deer/elk
2013: 367 wolves eat 5,505 deer/elk
2014: 1,284 wolves eat 19,260 deer/elk
2015: 4,494 wolves eat 67,410 deer/elk
2016: 15,729 wolves eat 235,935 deer/elk
2017: 55,051 wolves eat 825,772 deer/elk
2018: 192,678 wolves eat 2,890,177 deer/elk
2019: 674,373 wolves eat 10,115,595 deer/elk
2020: 2,360,305 wolves eat 35,404,582 deer/elk

 I used the low average numbers for calculations.
 Within the 10 year life span of the original 15 pairs of wolves anyone with a 6th grade education can see that wolves will decimate deer/elk populations statewide.
 You would truly have to be a ratard to think we need wolves in Washington or any other state for that matter.

there is a flaw here that any animal manager can see...the anti's use this same sort of doubling to push their cat and dog "facts" with relation to mandatory spay and neuter.  The 5-6 in a litter is average births but that is not a survivability number.... that would likely average closer to 3 pups making it to a year on average

... I will throw this out there if these are truly wild wolves a epidemic of distemper like has been seen in some raccoon populations recently would put a hurt on the population....however if the first generation wolves are planted they also likely are vaccinated...and that will provide probably lifelong immunity after all they are dogs so can be vaccinated using the same shots we give our dogs....

[Knocker of rocks]

 

And I would guess that the surviving litter population is probably even lower, on the order of two after about three years.

[7.62Warbird]

I realize that there are many other factors involved that will possibly lower the numbers of pups surviving each year. The calculations are meant to show worst case scenario. So if only half the pups make thats still enough to decimate game herds.

[twistiron]

2 million really, seriously your right my 7 year old could drop the BS flag on that one. i seem to remember that when washington was settled there where only about 20000 wolves killed total before sightings stoped (verg of extinction) i am sure that is off a bit but seriously i bet the native americans and their bows killed enough to keep the population in control! come on fellas we have to sound like we have know what we are doing! if your math was correct idaho should have in the ball park of 170,000!!!!!!! just my  i am out!

[bearpaw]

If you consider the rare sightings of wild game in Lewis and Clarks journals I think it would be more accurate to say that wolves were self-limiting, they had eaten prey in many areas to the point that the remaining prey only supported so many wolves.

There is no doubt that without heavy management of wolves there will not be large enough herds to allow human hunting of prey, the wolf lovers and pro-wolf biologists all know this and that is why they want wolves back so badly. The wolf results in their goal of halting hunting.   

[3nails]

If you consider the rare sightings of wild game in Lewis and Clarks journals I think it would be more accurate to say that wolves were self-limiting, they had eaten prey in many areas to the point that the remaining prey only supported so many wolves.

There is no doubt that without heavy management of wolves there will not be large enough herds to allow human hunting of prey, the wolf lovers and pro-wolf biologists all know this and that is why they want wolves back so badly. The wolf results in their goal of halting hunting.   

Bingo! Oh yeah, and since you don't need those guns for hunting, why don't you just hand them over now. Thanks. Would you now like to see the new constitution we wrote for you?

[Maverick]

Heres what I think. We've done pretty well in the past without having wolves so why do we need them now? I see no way how they could make the hunting betterso get rid of them.

[cuzsis]

 Hey guys, let's blame the wolves (or any animal) for poor management by Washington state.

 Wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears, they're all fine to have in an area. And good for it. We don't need people trapping beavers (and paying them to do so) because the cougars have a taste for beaver and do it for us. The wolves will take the weak and sick giving us some absolutely kickbutt trophy deer and elk in the long run. All around good stuff. 

 It's when the management fails that populations can skew. Especially having predators reintroduced to an area where the prey doesn't remember them. It'll take them a few iterations to dredge up those old instincts. In the meantime, the numbers do the funky chicken like lynx and snowshoe hares. Good management prevents this and allows both to grow well and properly.

 So let's stop being mad at the wolves. They're just animals doing what they're supposed to do. Let's get mad at the elected leaders who are actually responsible for this (and whole lot of other stuff outside of hunting that they have screwed up lately...) 

 

 

[high country]

Hey guys, let's blame the wolves (or any animal) for poor management by Washington state.

 Wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears, they're all fine to have in an area. And good for it. We don't need people trapping beavers (and paying them to do so) because the cougars have a taste for beaver and do it for us. The wolves will take the weak and sick giving us some absolutely kickbutt trophy deer and elk in the long run. All around good stuff. 

 It's when the management fails that populations can skew. Especially having predators reintroduced to an area where the prey doesn't remember them. It'll take them a few iterations to dredge up those old instincts. In the meantime, the numbers do the funky chicken like lynx and snowshoe hares. Good management prevents this and allows both to grow well and properly.

 So let's stop being mad at the wolves. They're just animals doing what they're supposed to do. Let's get mad at the elected leaders who are actually responsible for this (and whole lot of other stuff outside of hunting that they have screwed up lately...) 

 

 

Perhaps you should let Idaho, Montana and Wyoming know that wolves are giving them great gene pools and that they have misinterpretation of the devastating effects wolves have had on their herds and economy.

[ribka]

Hey guys, let's blame the wolves (or any animal) for poor management by Washington state.

 Wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears, they're all fine to have in an area. And good for it. We don't need people trapping beavers (and paying them to do so) because the cougars have a taste for beaver and do it for us. The wolves will take the weak and sick giving us some absolutely kickbutt trophy deer and elk in the long run. All around good stuff. 

 It's when the management fails that populations can skew. Especially having predators reintroduced to an area where the prey doesn't remember them. It'll take them a few iterations to dredge up those old instincts. In the meantime, the numbers do the funky chicken like lynx and snowshoe hares. Good management prevents this and allows both to grow well and properly.

 So let's stop being mad at the wolves. They're just animals doing what they're supposed to do. Let's get mad at the elected leaders who are actually responsible for this (and whole lot of other stuff outside of hunting that they have screwed up lately...) 

 

 

Perhaps you should let Idaho, Montana and Wyoming know that wolves are giving them great gene pools and that they have misinterpretation of the devastating effects wolves have had on their herds and economy.

Wolves only target the weak and the sick??   Where do people get this nonsense?

I guess 70% of the Yellowstone elk herd had some some of sickness and were therefore almost wiped out by the wolves.

Interesting you should mention lynx. Remember a few years ago when Federal F&W employees were placing lynx fir in certain areas in order that the area be declared a critical habitat area and shut down all hunting and recreational use in that area.

Just my  Many in the government game management business want to re intro wolves in order to "manage" game numbers using "natural" means. As a result there will be no hunting in the future. Look to parts of ID, WY, MT.

Now if they wanted to first intro a few hundred wolves to King county and parks in Seattle and Portland that might be a place to start.

[twistiron]

cuzsis, i am going to refrain from getting upset with you because i had that idea at one point, i ask you take some time to really read up on exactly how the events have transpired in our neighboring pacific northwest states. please take the time to find out exactly what is happening and see if you really want that to happen here! i will agree the elected officials do have a huge part in the crisis but as in the case of ID even the gov wanted a hunting season and the pro wolf groups stop that because they can sue for anything and never pay a cent! let me know what you find out

[greenhead_killer]

Hey guys, let's blame the wolves (or any animal) for poor management by Washington state.

 Wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears, they're all fine to have in an area. And good for it. We don't need people trapping beavers (and paying them to do so) because the cougars have a taste for beaver and do it for us. The wolves will take the weak and sick giving us some absolutely kickbutt trophy deer and elk in the long run. All around good stuff. 

 It's when the management fails that populations can skew. Especially having predators reintroduced to an area where the prey doesn't remember them. It'll take them a few iterations to dredge up those old instincts. In the meantime, the numbers do the funky chicken like lynx and snowshoe hares. Good management prevents this and allows both to grow well and properly.

 So let's stop being mad at the wolves. They're just animals doing what they're supposed to do. Let's get mad at the elected leaders who are actually responsible for this (and whole lot of other stuff outside of hunting that they have screwed up lately...) 

 

 

Perhaps you should let Idaho, Montana and Wyoming know that wolves are giving them great gene pools and that they have misinterpretation of the devastating effects wolves have had on their herds and economy.

Wolves only target the weak and the sick??   Where do people get this nonsense?

I guess 70% of the Yellowstone elk herd had some some of sickness and were therefore almost wiped out by the wolves.

Interesting you should mention lynx. Remember a few years ago when Federal F&W employees were placing lynx fir in certain areas in order that the area be declared a critical habitat area and shut down all hunting and recreational use in that area.

Just my  Many in the government game management business want to re intro wolves in order to "manage" game numbers using "natural" means. As a result there will be no hunting in the future. Look to parts of ID, WY, MT.

Now if they wanted to first intro a few hundred wolves to King county and parks in Seattle and Portland that might be a place to start.

yeah, we should def drop these bad boys right in the backyards of the buttf*&%S  that are so in love with them. let them deal with the consequences of their actions instead of putting it on the rest of us. perfect examples going on in our bordering states and these f-tards want to do the same here regardless of the info they have, scientific evidence, from id, mt, wy...add us to the list. maybe do a few live captures and drop a few off in greenlake, theyd like to see one from their windows down there.
 and to twistiron, kudos to you for doing your homework. amazing what information is out there and available on this subject