Lighted nock article in the spokesman

[pianoman9701]

how bout be happy with what you have,geez in another year the bows will be shooting at muzzle loader speeds..Its really getting ridiculous as to what, or maybe I should say how easy some want hunting with a bow to be..flame away but I'm thinking the whole bow hunting idea was to be a little more demanding on the hunter..To be more in tune with nature....Maybe I'm missing something

All due respects, Rasbo, regardless of lighted nocks, cameras, or retractable broadheads, archery still takes a higher level of dedication, quite a bit more equipment, and the ability to get close to an animal for your shot. A modern weapon hunter can realistically shoot half a box of ammo and be ready to kill animals each year. Not so with archery. Even an average archer must spend days conditioning by range shooting before he'll be able to hold an arrow at full draw and accurately shoot. Getting within 40 yards of one of the most wary game animals of North America, possibly the world, adds a whole new dimension to stalking. With all of the advancements in archery over the last three decades, you still have to be in the right place at the right time with the right skills to kill an animal. Lighted nocks wouldn't give an archer any further killing advantage.

I agree with others that this guy's campaign has resulted in a black eye to bowhunters. Even if his information is verifiable and anti-hunters have access to it too, what we don't need is a fellow hunter telling the world that we lose half of our animals. I'm not sure I believe that figure, either. It is not anywhere near my personal experience or that of my fellow hunters.

[Snapshot]

Imagine a list of most effective mechanisms for reducing wounding loss.

Some variation of this critter would be at the very top of such a list! If wounding loss is a real reason for concern...employ a tool that works!

[Atroxus]

I have an idea... let's legalize both lighted nocks and barbed expandable broadheads.  Arrow sticks in the animal, and the nock lights the way to the wounded critter.  That way we can take those 80-100 yd shots at dusk and not worry about losing game.

I keep seeing people say lighted knocks will cause people to take longer range shots and/or lower light shots. I am not a bow hunter, so I am curious how you explain this? My understanding is that the light only comes from the back end of the arrow as it is fired. How would this possibly allow someone to think they could shoot farther or see better when hunting? It makes as much sense to me as it would to say that brighter brake lights on cars would make people drive faster. 

how bout be happy with what you have,geez in another year the bows will be shooting at muzzle loader speeds..Its really getting ridiculous as to what, or maybe I should say how easy some want hunting with a bow to be..flame away but I'm thinking the whole bow hunting idea was to be a little more demanding on the hunter..To be more in tune with nature....Maybe I'm missing something

Just because they keep advancing technology doesn't mean someone is forcing you to use it. Even if someone makes a laser guided homing arrow that can follow deer around corners it's not like they would be coming to your house and secretly replace all your arrows while you are out.

[Kain]

People are taking longer shots than they should already.  I dont hear about big problems in other states that they are legal. 

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

People are taking longer shots than they should already.  I dont hear about big problems in other states that they are legal.

I keep seeing people say lighted knocks will cause people to take longer range shots and/or lower light shots

If you eliminate the fear of losing an arrow, some bowhunters would risk a low percentage shot, if they can shoot a 3 and 1/2 inch circle at the range, why not take a chance ?
NOT MY FEELING/OPINION !!, just saying.  some guys already feel no reason not to shoot at animals 60+ yards away.

[popeshawnpaul]

I didn't care for the article for a lot of the reasons mentioned above.  Whether you want this gadget or not there is a way to go about these things.  My main issue with the article was it was not factual and there was no use of other sources to back up the story.  The comment about the three archery groups not agreeing on this was a stretch.  WSB has decided not to issue an opinion on the subject up to this point for various reasons.  While some people may personally not agree with others in the other groups, there is no official stance from the WSB at this point although that could change soon.

I personally have invested more time in the potential loss of our important late hunts and opportunity such as the late Swakane season.  Shoot whatever nock you want if you are sitting at home because you don't have a season.   Don't worry, you'll draw every 15 years and get to hunt that year... 

[Miles]

Wow, it's been a long time since I've seen a post from you here.  Welcome back.

[Snapshot]

I'm not sure I believe that (wounding loss) figure, either. It is not anywhere near my personal experience or that of my fellow hunters.

It was gobble-dee-gook contrived to lend support to a man's point of view, without any regard whatsoever for the harm it could do to bowhunting. I can't put into words how low that goes in my book.
 
I am told that Dr Valerius Geist, an expert on antered animals, has written extensively on the subject of studies on recoveries from arrow wounds. Documented information is out there.

[boneaddict]

A-men Pope!   Exactly.

[Lowedog]

how bout be happy with what you have,geez in another year the bows will be shooting at muzzle loader speeds..Its really getting ridiculous as to what, or maybe I should say how easy some want hunting with a bow to be..flame away but I'm thinking the whole bow hunting idea was to be a little more demanding on the hunter..To be more in tune with nature....Maybe I'm missing something

I'm guessing you wouldn't be interested in one of those new Electra muzzleloaders...   Use a 9V battery now instead of a cap---faster ignition than even modern firearms.
I am of the opinion that there are only maybe a quarter of the people doing archery/muzzy because of the allure of the equipment and a more restrictive/challenging(?) way of hunting.  The state created hunting seasons that have more of an appeal for some based on the season than the weapon of choice.  If you could pick season and use any weapon in it, would you care to guess what the archer/muzzy/modern breakdowns would be?  So if people are really wishing they could be using a rifle but hunting in the other seasons, then I would guess that these people have no problem using bows/muzzies that are approaching the effectiveness of rifles.  But then again the rifle world has plenty of people pushing technology farther and farther with its equipment---look at how many now want to shoot 1000 yards and beyond.

JimmyHoffa, this is one of the most spot on posts regarding this subject that I have read.  IMO the number of people hunting muzzy or archery because of a more restricting/challenging form of hunting is much lower than 25%.  I believe most are hunting those seasons because of timing of those seasons and a perceived notion that they will have a better chance at killing something. 

Sure are a lot of hurt feelings over this article.  From my experience I don't think it is far from factual.  If you think that most archery hunters are the elite, most ethical hunters around like the few who continually post on these types of threads condemning any thing they don't feel appeals to their own since of what is archery hunting then you should go take a hike in the Swakane unit during late archery. 

If anything is a black eye to archery hunting it is the fact that WDFW continues to have a general season mule deer hunt during the rut confined to a couple of units knowing that the Swakane is so accessible.  That and the fact that archery hunters continue to support that hunt and flock to it in huge numbers because they think it will be an easy way to kill a mature rutting mule deer should tell you where the heart of the majority of archery hunters lies. 

[dreamingbig]

I personally have invested more time in the potential loss of our important late hunts and opportunity such as the late Swakane season.  Shoot whatever nock you want if you are sitting at home because you don't have a season.   Don't worry, you'll draw every 15 years and get to hunt that year... 

Yes.  Well said... I could care less for lighted nocks and this article is bad press all the way around.  It is unfortunate but we as an user group need to up our lobbying efforts.

[pianoman9701]

Thanks for speaking for "a majority of archers" Lowedog, but your comments don't represent me or the hunters I know. I hunt archery because it takes a great amount of skill, training, and stealth, and I work very hard to do it with a high degree of proficiency and ethics. Most archers I know do it for the challenge and difficulty, and work for months before the season to hone their skills. Sometimes I use very modern archery equipment and I also use a stickbow. I don't care what gadgets or innovations that other archers shoot with, but I do expect a high level of ethics and integrity from all of my hunting partners.

You say you don't think the article isn't far from factual. Do you say that because you have actual data or is it just a gut feeling? Because again, like the guy trying to push lighted nocks, I don't see any references to back up your "experience". It may just be my assumption, but it sounds to me like you have little or no experience with archery hunting for big game. I don't hunt big game with a modern firearm, but that doesn't mean I'll assume that all the ones who do are lazy, drunk, and will shoot from inside their truck. When you say we flock to the hunt in large numbers, that's very inaccurate. Archers represent only 18% of the total Washington elk hunters-less than 1/5th. That figure comes from the WDFW.

If you don't choose to hunt archery, I don't care. But, don't label hunters using other hunting methods than you with sweeping, negative statements. I respect modern and ML hunters, waterfowlers, upland, predator, and varmint hunters just because they're keeping our hunting heritage alive. We should all be supporting each other in our passion, not throwing one another under the bus.

Good luck bagging something in the upcoming season. I hope you do.

[Lowedog]

Pionoman, show me where I was speaking for the majority of archery hunters.  If you reread my post you will see I stated my opinion and nothing more.  Do I not get to have an opinion? 

It may just be my assumption, but it sounds to me like you have little or no experience with archery hunting for big game.

Thats quite an assumption to make off of one post don't you think?


You and the hunters you know probably don't fall into the majority.  Again, all it takes is to spend a day out in the late Swakane archery hunt and I believe you will find that the majority of those out there don't fall into the category of "doing it for the challenge and difficulty". 

[boneaddict]

I don't care what gadgets or innovations that other archers shoot with, but I do expect a high level of ethics and integrity from all of my hunting partners.

This statement is how I feel but often why I am percieved as being elitist or judgemental or holier than thou, or whatever the insult or category I am thrown in.  I strive to be humble, but I do draw the line at slob hunting.     I bet the Swakane is full of that, as is general modern, clockum elk etc.    Pretty frickin scary really!

[whacker1]

Pionoman, show me where I was speaking for the majority of archery hunters.  If you reread my post you will see I stated my opinion and nothing more.  Do I not get to have an opinion? 

It may just be my assumption, but it sounds to me like you have little or no experience with archery hunting for big game.

Thats quite an assumption to make off of one post don't you think?


You and the hunters you know probably don't fall into the majority.  Again, all it takes is to spend a day out in the late Swakane archery hunt and I believe you will find that the majority of those out there don't fall into the category of "doing it for the challenge and difficulty". 

I will speak to the comments of what motivates me to archery hunt - I took up archery hunting in the last five years because of the Rut and opportunity for the encounters with bulls during the Rut.  The "desire" for the Challenge and insight into the process, research, blown opportunities all came to my attention after the fact.  I believe that the "desire" for said Challenge comes from one evolving as a hunter and growing as a person.

So, I would agree that there are many people in the field for various motivations.  in no particular order to name a few:
1) Challenge
2) Different hunting Opportunities
3) Length of seasons
4) Availability for time off
5) Less competition afield
6) Felons can't own or use firearms - I know a few that are hunting archery to this day for this reason

There are more I am sure.  My point is that there are different motivations.  I will say that for me as unexperienced Archery hunter, that I would likely use a lighted nock, because I want every opportunity to improve my chances at locating a downed animal.  Finding an arrow can tell you a lot about what type of hit the animal encountered.  It may make the difference in waiting longer before pursuing the animal, and thus not kicking him out of his or her bed.  I don't think that it will change the number of lost or wounded animals by a significant margin.  But I do want that option to help me have every tool available for finding my animal when the opportunity arises. 

And the article did not cast hunters in a favorable light