collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released  (Read 12535 times)

Offline TONTO

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1018
  • Location: Longview,WA
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 08:10:47 PM »
Quote
policy in the modern world are based overwhelmingly on SCIENCE and FACTS

 Religious or not, Fact: man has dominion over the animals, and science has proven he has held this status for a very long time. To deny man as part of any eco system goes against both standards.

Offline Alan K

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 3024
  • Location: Lewis County, WA
  • University of Idaho Alumni
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 08:42:07 PM »
I agree completely with that, and I would bet you that the majority of environmentalists and biologists view man as a huge part of the ecosystem probably the largest part.  When they were citing some quotes of some whack jobs speaking of the contrary, we were into the part of the documentary that that the extreme anti-wolf was showing through.  :chuckle:


Offline Knocker of rocks

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 8801
  • Location: the Holocene, man
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2011, 06:24:22 AM »
I agree completely with that, and I would bet you that the majority of environmentalists and biologists view man as a huge part of the ecosystem probably the largest part.  When they were citing some quotes of some whack jobs speaking of the contrary, we were into the part of the documentary that that the extreme anti-wolf was showing through.  :chuckle:

Scientists know that man is part of the ecosystem, and not merely as a huge "800 pound gorilla" that only destroys things.  Look at wildfire science, it is realized that the Indians set prescriptive fires and practiced a very high level of silvaculture hundreds (thousands?) of years ago.

There are scientists who do take a contrary view of the current wolf plans, or at the least are much more cautious about the wolves.It is too bad the film maker did not seek these people out, but instead relied on Dr. Vantessel for academic credence.  We are never told what department Vantessel formerly taught in.  Since he has a Doctorate in Theology, we may assume that he did not teach in Biology, Forestry or Environmental Studies.

There are many individuals on both sides of the wolf issue who are very devoutly religious.  To refer to others as hapless dupes of Godless Gaia worshiping new-age commies is a mistake.  It is insulting,  turns a secular problem into one of belief and marginalizes the anti-wolf viewpoint. 

Offline jrod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 141
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2011, 07:36:51 PM »
Think i might half ta dumb it down just a little bit! I THOUGHT IT WAS AN ABSOLUTEY GREAT DUCUMENTARY!!!!  Dont really have any other real fancy stuff ta say

Offline Elkaholic daWg

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 6057
  • Location: Arlington Wa / Rock n Roll-Kelly Hill
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 08:12:23 PM »
Wish I wasn't stuck with dial-up!!! Don't have a week to wait for it.
Blue Ribbon Coalition
CCRKBA
SAF
NRA                        
Go DaWgs!!

Offline runamuk

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 17878
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 09:34:11 PM »
As documentaries go this was a decent one.  I enjoyed the young mans journey and questions.  I liked the commentary by Beers.  I would love to meet the gentleman in the plaid shirt he seemed to be a very center of the issue based guy, and I liked his speaking manner and what he had to say.  that was a man I'd love to have coffee with and chat.

Now for the dont likes...it was all good until the end where it went all god squad bible pushing and just made it something I cant share with most my cirle of people without a giant WARNING CHRISTIAN CONTENT AHEAD AND POSSIBLE BIBLE PUSHING insert flashy lights etc and sadly that in and of itself is enough for a good documentary to lose all credence with "my people".... my people being a lot of people who are liberal minded but not anti hunter anti meat anti ranching but definitely need a real damn good reason to step off the fence and a big dose of god aint it  :dunno:

other than that I did like the whole thing I simply shut it off when it started preaching and singing at me :)

Offline Killercolin

  • Is it hunting season yet?
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 88
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2011, 03:16:46 PM »
Great video. Really opens your eyes to how big of an issue this really is. But where do we start in our state?

Offline scudmaster

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 370
  • Location: North Bend, WA
  • Aim Small, Miss Small!
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2011, 07:32:38 PM »
A very fine effort by a young film maker, and a very good 45 minute documentary.  It is only marred by the fact that it is 60 minutes long. 

Very good and convincing explanation of the pressures that wolves are putting on rural communities, brings up some questions about how the process was started and funded, was the EIS process subverted, and is the endangered species status of wolves legitimate?  Also brings up how man has been part of the ecosystem ever since the Bering Straight was crossed. 

The film does falsely imply that most environmentalists believe that man is distinct from the ecosystem at large, something that has faded over the last thirty years.  For more writing by mainstream naturalists regarding the part of man in the ecosystem one could read the works of Stephen Pyne or Alston Chase.

Where the filmmaker interviews former professor Stephen Vantessel, the message goes off topic and becomes a rambling and poorly supported diatribe against godless Commies who have sinfully forsaken God to worship Mother Earth.  Somehow, the wolf issue becomes a part of God's dominion and the question becomes one of God v. Wolves  None of this serves the purpose of educating the general public about wolf reintroduction, and marginalizes the entire film.  Which is a pity, because the pro-wolf media certainly knows how to produce a mainstream friendly message.

Right on point.  It was an excellent documentary with a reasonable presentation of the impacts of the wolf.   Had great potential for wide spread acceptance until the religious aspect was brought up.  While I don't disagree with the theological arguments, it limits the audience that this will appeal to.

NRA Life Member
WA Wild Sheep Life Member
Snoqualmie Elk Mgmt Group
RMEF Member
BHA Member
Blue Lives Matter

Offline villageidiot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 430
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2011, 07:53:39 PM »
Don't forget there are two documentaries out very similiar.   Scott Rockholm produced the first one called "Yellowstone is Dead".   If you are turned off by God then watch his.  It's very well done and I think has a few more facts in it since it's longer. If you have friends that you would like to see one and you think the religious part would turn them off then have them watch Scott Rockholms.   Personally I like this one just a little better because of the scriptures that talk about mans dominion over animals.  Mentioning God in it didn't turn me off one little bit.  Both documentaries give a lot of good facts.

Offline runamuk

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 17878
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2011, 07:56:29 PM »
Don't forget there are two documentaries out very similiar.   Scott Rockholm produced the first one called "Yellowstone is Dead".   If you are turned off by God then watch his.  It's very well done and I think has a few more facts in it since it's longer. If you have friends that you would like to see one and you think the religious part would turn them off then have them watch Scott Rockholms.   Personally I like this one just a little better because of the scriptures that talk about mans dominion over animals.  Mentioning God in it didn't turn me off one little bit.  Both documentaries give a lot of good facts.

except rockholm told some of us we were idiots for not following his exact views so no thanks....

Offline NWBREW

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 4196
  • Location: Stevens County
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2011, 03:07:50 AM »
      I'm not sure on the credibility of a lot of the numbers and percentages some of the local people were throwing out, but clearly wolves have had their impact in and around Yellowstone and MT with the decrease in elk numbers.



I think you would be appald at the real numbers and precenteges. Those numbers are huge. Even if you only put the numbers at half......still huge.
 As for Rockholm, I agree he treated some people on here like crap but I can understand (I think) why it seems so desprate for him. This is a big deal. Look at what has happened in the last 8 years. Devestation not only to the elk herds but to a lot of ranchers and outfitters as well as other businesses. Now, add another 8 years on if nothing starts to happen fast to control this. It's bad now. How bad will it be then?

Think about it. Once game herds are down, businesses will start to suffer(resturants, motels, car rentals, etc.), the WDFW will lose money, which will be an obvious hard hit to the economy, more and higher taxes. If you don't think it can happen.......it already is in other states. The wolf does not play a part in my work or paycheck like it does for so many who counted on the game herds we the people were able to create. Although I may not agree 100% with rockholms people skills, I do see the need of urgency he tries so hard to get across. just my  :twocents:

Oh, and everytime i see something like this or hear numbers (even if the real numbers are 30% less) It makes me sick that our government allows this to happen.  10 years.....what will it be like?  >:(
Just one more day

Offline Miles

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 3533
  • Location: Pensacola, Florida
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2011, 03:34:24 AM »
What was his user name here?  Was he the one promising the once his documentary was realeased, it would prove the WDFW planted wolves in Washington?  Was he banned from this site?

Offline whuppinstick

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 276
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2011, 05:39:25 AM »
The religious talk in it brought it down a bit for me, but still good overall. Sure it's a part of life in the USA, but when you're publishing a documentary which I thought was pretty well unbiased and neutral as far as the facts go until the last quarter of it when it was obviously one sided, you can't bring faith into the discussion when you're trying to rationalize your argument with facts.  It's counterproductive to the argument. 

And yes, I'm an atheist, but have no problem with people having faith in whatever they choose to.  You've got to understand however, that decisions with respect to policy in the modern world are based overwhelmingly on SCIENCE and FACTS, which faith lacks.  Throw that in there, and while it depicts the heritage, culture, and mindset of the locals, it also undermines their credibility in the eyes of those who we're trying to convert.

Again, I thought it was good, and was promising there for the first 75% or so to be a real fact based documentary that had the potential to educate those in favor of wolves of their real world destruction and the deceit by which they were introduced.  I have already sent it to most of my family to watch, and am continuing to send links to basically everyone in my e-mail. 

Thanks for sharing the link!  :tup:

Knocker of Rocks and Alan K, you said everything I took notes on except both of you said it much more eloquently!  I'm also an atheist and so citing religious texts has no place in a documentary that simultaneously heavily weights its position on science and facts.  I think he could have used some more objective sources (say, Ed Bangs), though getting an interview on film with him may be difficult.  Also, a bit nitpicky, but I wish he had more stock footage of wolves than just the same couple of loops.  :)

Offline finnman

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+20)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 1638
  • Location: Puyallup
  • I gotcha where I want ya, now I'm gonna eat ya!
Re: Crying Wolf - Documentary Released
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2011, 10:54:59 PM »
I have yet to watch it...kind of scared to...I hate it when something you count on being there for you fails to show up. It sounds as if it has that type of conclusion for me. So many opinions and yet no real answers on a cure...

By the way, if anyone thinks that facts and science don't jive with the scriptures...you have not then read the evidence. It is all there in the Bible, you just have to give it a chance. Notice I didn't say Religion. Thats a whole nother issue.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Search underway for three missing people after boat sinks near Mukilteo by fishngamereaper
[Today at 10:16:54 AM]


Nevada Results by ganghis
[Today at 10:10:34 AM]


Oregon spring bear by pianoman9701
[Today at 09:54:52 AM]


Best/Preferred Scouting App by follow maggie
[Today at 09:08:20 AM]


Anybody breeding meat rabbit? by HighlandLofts
[Today at 08:25:26 AM]


Desert Sheds by HntnFsh
[Today at 07:27:38 AM]


Last year putting in… by wa.hunter
[Yesterday at 11:21:43 PM]


Sportsman’s Muzzloader Selection by VickGar
[Yesterday at 09:20:43 PM]


Vantage Bridge by jackelope
[Yesterday at 08:03:05 PM]


wyoming pronghorn draw by 87Ford
[Yesterday at 07:35:40 PM]


Wyoming elk who's in? by go4steelhd
[Yesterday at 03:25:16 PM]


New to ML-Optics help by Threewolves
[Yesterday at 02:55:25 PM]


Survey in ? by metlhead
[Yesterday at 01:42:41 PM]


F250 or Silverado 2500? by 7mmfan
[Yesterday at 01:39:14 PM]


Is FS70 open? by yajsab
[Yesterday at 10:13:07 AM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal