30-06....again

[300UltraMagShooter]

This kind of explains the way I feel about the whole energy transfer theory:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm

that's silly.  no one ever suggested that it was literally the kenetic energy force that killed quickly.  it is the kinetic energy that goes into the organs in such a way to cause them to turn to mush.  while speed is more important than mass, a smaller bullet will lose it's energy much more quickly, sometimes not penetrating enough before it destroys enough critical tissue.

the best of both worlds is a big bullet going fast.  you can't go wrong.  a small bullet has more of a chance to turning itself into mush before reaching vitals.

 

perhaps larger isn't exactly true.  a hard bullet, which resists mushrooming, can help with penetration, however, less mushrooming equals less energy going into tissue...  therefore, less tissue damage.

[Bofire]

 :)If energy transfer is what kills why does body armor work?
 
Carl

[elksnout]

OK. I bought a box of Federal Premium Nosler Partitions. Went out today and shot them. They group pretty decent out of my ruger 77. But after each shot I needed to really pull up hard on the bolt to extract the spent casing. And I mean pull hard. What's up with that? Never and I mean never have I had to do this with this rifle and Remington rounds. Just to be sure I fired a bunch of the Remington's to see if this happened with them. Nope. Easy extraction just like the 100's of rounds before. What's the deal?

[hub]

Federal has a product warning out on 243 ammo according to there websight. I would call Monday morning with your lot number and have a rather serious dicussion with those raskells. Apparently they used the wrong propellant in some of there 243 ammo causing very high pressure. Difficult bot lift is a sign of high pressure. If you have any left I would not shoot it. 

[elksnout]

Federal has a product warning out on 243 ammo according to there websight. I would call Monday morning with your lot number and have a rather serious dicussion with those raskells. Apparently they used the wrong propellant in some of there 243 ammo causing very high pressure. Difficult bot lift is a sign of high pressure. If you have any left I would not shoot it. 

I'd say the bolt lift was difficult to say the least. Thanks for the safety tip. I'll be calling them.

Elksnout

[Bofire]

Is the chamber clean?

[Rooster1981]

I would choose the 165 over the 180 any day to get that extra 100 yards of range.

  There's no difference in how far you can shoot with a 165 versus a 180.

Source?

My brain and common sense. Do you have an opinion or only questions?

Well For me I field test ammo instead of assume that my brain and common sense over rule science. At 400 yards my 165.grn drops 18-22'' A 180grn drops 22-26" so yes the drop doesnt seem that much differant but for me a variable of 8" at that range is out of my comfort range. if I were to go out to 500 yards the drop is out of sight at over 45'' I dont field test that far but I have tested at 400 yards and I believe the 165. gives me better flight with staggering penitration.

[bobcat]

There's not 8 inches difference between the 165 and 180 at 400 yards, even your numbers only show 4 inches. But actually it's just over an inch more drop with the 180 at 400 yards, and only 2 inches at 500 yards. And at 500 yards you get 2 to 3 inches less wind drift with the 180. In reality this is simply splitting hairs, and both the 165 and the 180 are virtually the same as far as trajectory goes. So I'm sorry, but I just cannot fathom how the 165 has 100 yards more range than the 180. 

Just for an example, here are the ballistics for the 165 grain Nosler Partition versus the 180 grain Nosler Partition:
 
 

[Rooster1981]

Thats great that nosler puts out there own balistics, like I said I do my own research and I also use the data from Hornady which is the ammo I use. But It really depends on the type of powder, how much powder, how much gas escape from the chamber, and the brand of rifle you shoot all falls into the ballistics. Any one can copy and paste info from the web, I use the data I have optained and try to share it with others. JMO

[bobcat]

It's actually not Nosler's data, but Federal. It really doesn't matter if you load your own, or use a different bullet. The value in the data I posted is that it's the same bullet, just one is 165 and one is 180 grains. So with everything else being equal, you can see what the difference is between the 165 and 180 grain bullets out of a 30-06. And, it's pretty obvious, the difference is very slight, and not enough to matter in the real world.
 
What one can do at 500 yards, so can the other.

[O_mykiss]

Energy doesn't kill elk. Damaged lungs, heart and blood loss do. A 180 gr bullet from an '06 is going to have virtually the same velocity(energy) regardless of bullet construction at all reasonable distances. It's all about what the bullet does inside of the animal. A hole through both lungs will kill nearly as quickly as turning them both to jelly. 5000 ft/lbs of energy won't do you any good if you hit an elk in the guts.

 If you want a pass-through, go to a stouter bullet like the accubond or one of the mono-metal bullets, otherwise, I see nothing wrong with the bullet mushrooming and resting underneath the far side hide. It did it's job.

Rifles aren't death-rays like we want them to be and never will be.

[hub]

I role my own 200 grain partitions for close range elk hunting. I can,t find any company that loads 200 grainers anymore. Ya guys ought to see what a 200 will do out of the 06. What ever causes an elk to die real quick is what the 200 does. I guess I,m sort of  stuck on heavier is gooder for getting large animals on the ground. Especially in steep country like we have here in Wa.state. An elk that covers a 100 hundres yards after being hit could easily get tagged by another hunter. Or go down a steep slope making retreival that much more work.

[dscubame]

It's actually not Nosler's data, but Federal. It really doesn't matter if you load your own, or use a different bullet. The value in the data I posted is that it's the same bullet, just one is 165 and one is 180 grains. So with everything else being equal, you can see what the difference is between the 165 and 180 grain bullets out of a 30-06. And, it's pretty obvious, the difference is very slight, and not enough to matter in the real world.
 
What one can do at 500 yards, so can the other.

I came to the same conclusion a few years ago so I now shoot the 165 out of my rem 700 because it shoots the 165 far better than the 180.  Use to switch depending on deer or elk now it is the same for both and I am much more consistant.  I would have just as willingly gone exclusively to the 180 if that is what my gun chose but it chose the 165 instead.

[338_Thumper]

16 of my Elk were shot with my 30.06 using 165 grain Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Bullets (All 1 Shot kills) I also get (3) shot dime size groups at 100 yards.
Now I have also used the 165 Nosler Ballistic Tips and get the same groups without adjusting my scope at all. I wouldn't use them on Elk though because they kinda blow up on inpact - They do spoil some meat on deer because of the blowing up part - Now for long range shooting they are great like over 250 yards because they loose some velocity and open up great without any meat spoilage.

[Rooster1981]

Energy doesn't kill elk. Damaged lungs, heart and blood loss do. A 180 gr bullet from an '06 is going to have virtually the same velocity(energy) regardless of bullet construction at all reasonable distances. It's all about what the bullet does inside of the animal. A hole through both lungs will kill nearly as quickly as turning them both to jelly. 5000 ft/lbs of energy won't do you any good if you hit an elk in the guts.

 If you want a pass-through, go to a stouter bullet like the accubond or one of the mono-metal bullets, otherwise, I see nothing wrong with the bullet mushrooming and resting underneath the far side hide. It did it's job.

Rifles aren't death-rays like we want them to be and never will be.

I agree completly, Choosing the slug is very important. When I was shooting BTSP rounds I almost always retreived the slug in the far side of the hide. I have been experimenting with SST rounds and they seem to mushroom better but I am passing through with huge exit wounds. The last elk I shot with sst rounds died within 25 yards of impact of the shot, I was very pleased.