WOLF - UNGULATE INTERACTION DATA

[KillBilly]

Hunter Data and IMPACTS
•Hunters currently harvest an average of 8,000 elk in all areas of Washington (page 78, page 83 wolf plan).

Wolf Data and IMPACTS
•Studies have indicated that 1 wolf may eat 17 elk per year (page 73 wolf plan).
At that rate the target population of 361 wolves in Washington could eat as many as 6,137 elk in a year.

•Eastern Washington could end up with 1000+ wolves and that many wolves could eat as many as 17,000 elk per year in Washington before the required number of breeding pairs is established so that delisting and subsequent management can occur.

Ref. Link to Wolf Plan
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/Wolves/docs/2010_wcmp_wolf_conservation.pdf

[JimmyHoffa]

KillBilly, do you know if any of the data or anything in the Wolf Plan makes any account for differences between Roosevelt Elk and Rocky Mountain Elk?  I didn't see anything that jumped out in the Wolf Plan, but didn't look through their sources.

[KillBilly]

KillBilly, do you know if any of the data or anything in the Wolf Plan makes any account for differences between Roosevelt Elk and Rocky Mountain Elk?  I didn't see anything that jumped out in the Wolf Plan, but didn't look through their sources.

I truly don't know the answer you seek. I will have to research that a little more.   Good Question

[high country]

Well the good news is, we hardly have 17,000 elk in eastern Washington.....

In the corner we kill less than a hundred pre year.....closer to 50. One good hit on winter range by the wolves and we will need to have our 72hour season increased to year round just to see an elk.

[KillBilly]

Well the good news is, we hardly have 17,000 elk in eastern Washington.....

In the corner we kill less than a hundred pre year.....closer to 50. One good hit on winter range by the wolves and we will need to have our 72hour season increased to year round just to see an elk.

That is a shame, and the NE corner is where a lot of the wolves are entering our state

[runamuk]

ok so in a perfect wolf world....after the wolves eat all the elk and deer...what are the wolf lovers gonna feed them?  dog food?  we gonna start farming deer and elk for wolf food?  I know the wolves will go after cattle and sheep and goats and if really hungry house pets and possibly children when wolves are hunted by man they fear man when not its a whole new game...I want to know how the wolves will be fed after they decimate the herds...

[high country]

Muk, they will go home, to Canada where they will be shot.

[TONTO]

Hunter Data and IMPACTS
•Hunters currently harvest an average of 8,000 elk in all areas of Washington (page 78, page 83 wolf plan).

Wolf Data and IMPACTS
•Studies have indicated that 1 wolf may eat 17 elk per year (page 73 wolf plan).
At that rate the target population of 361 wolves in Washington could eat as many as 6,137 elk in a year.

  I could see the same logic used with the sealion lawsuits used here. Sea lion kill keeps getting shut down because the argument sealions have less impact than fisherman, or hasen't been proven atleast.
 OK wolves may kill 6,137 elk per year, but hunters are harvesting 8,000. Simple solution cut the hunting harvest and we have plenty of elk left for the poor poor hungry wolves who have less impact on the herds than the hunters already have, and are just doing what they were born to do.

[high country]

Hunter Data and IMPACTS
•Hunters currently harvest an average of 8,000 elk in all areas of Washington (page 78, page 83 wolf plan).

Wolf Data and IMPACTS
•Studies have indicated that 1 wolf may eat 17 elk per year (page 73 wolf plan).
At that rate the target population of 361 wolves in Washington could eat as many as 6,137 elk in a year.

  I could see the same logic used with the sealion lawsuits used here. Sea lion kill keeps getting shut down because the argument sealions have less impact than fisherman, or hasen't been proven atleast.
 OK wolves may kill 6,137 elk per year, but hunters are harvesting 8,000. Simple solution cut the hunting harvest and we have plenty of elk left for the poor poor hungry wolves who have less impact on the herds than the hunters already have, and are just doing what they were born to do.

It is going to happen. Look at Idaho. They had to reduce tags to keep from eliminating their herds.

[Special T]

This plain and simple math shows the idiocy of the WDFW. What funding source do they think they are going to have to fund their department when they can no longer sell large number of big game tag packages?  Has no one asked them that question? can they not see what the other states are going through?

[whuppinstick]

•Eastern Washington could end up with 1000+ wolves and that many wolves could eat as many as 17,000 elk per year in Washington before the required number of breeding pairs is established so that delisting and subsequent management can occur.

Where is this number coming from?  If we are assuming 15 breeding pairs, then that number is waaaay too high.  For example, Idaho's 2009 population
 was 843 wolves with 64 confirmed reproducing packs. (source: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/mar/13/idahos-wolf-population-at-least-843/)

Also, that 17/year estimate cannot be extrapolated linearly.  Is that 17/year per wolf assuming he is running with 4-6 other wolves, or assuming he is alone?  It seems to me that 100 wolves in Washington would be on the higher end of elk killed/year and a larger number (say 600) would shift that down.  But I don't know where on the scale the 17/year would fit in.  Also, the density of deer in the area would affect those numbers.  As would the number of sheep and cows..

[whuppinstick]

This plain and simple math shows the idiocy of the WDFW.

There is no plain and simple math in wildlife management.

[runamuk]

Muk, they will go home, to Canada where they will be shot.

okey dokey thanks good to know...

[Special T]

If hunters pay $$$ to hunt and eat deer and elk, & every wolf takes 17 animals to support....  So if i spend 82.50 to hunt then some non hunter needs to fork out $1402.5 for the "management" of wolves. likely they need to fork out 3-10 times that amount since a wolf WILL consume that amount of prey but hunter success is much lower.    Every wolf more than we have decreases opportunity for hunting not the opposite. 

[high country]

53,470,080 square acres in the state of Idaho. How many biologists cover that? You feel 843 is an actual number or a guess? I know the answer.

According to the Idaho wolf management and conservation plan, wolf predation was an average of 23 kills per wolf/year. Elk made up 89% of their diet.

Do the math 843 wolves taking even half of the estimated number of animals is still over TEN THOUSAND ANIMALS. And that is using half figures, not counting sport kills, cat kills that the wolves kick the cat off....resulting in a second kill by the cat.

We are in deep caca folks.