Wolf meeting

[Kain]

They usually put the audio transcripts here.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html

[popeshawnpaul]

A couple issues I wanted to bring up about today's meeting.  It appeared at times that Nathan and Rocky tried to overgeneralize and slip some stuff by the commission.  A few commissioners called them out on it and asked the specific needed questions for them to admit some of the shortfalls.  Some of the info they were trying to feed us is that wolves will have no impact on big game populations.  Yet, they provided statistics that we eventually figured out was low and not correct according to Idaho and other sources that half the available elk to be killed will be taken out by wolves.  To rebut that, they stated that the wolf predation on the elk would be compensatory so it wasn't a 1:1 wolf taking an elk that could be hunted.  Yet they did not know an actual number.

Almost every question was answered with a "we aren't sure" or we don't know but we'll wait and see.  That isn't good enough if you want to dive into a wolf pack.  15 breeding pairs is 200-600 wolves depending on your math and to dive into that many without knowing how to deal with them is disaster and just what ID, MT, and WY have found out.  That number was adopted over 3 years ago, before all the new information has come to light in ID and the other states.  Yet they won't adjust that number.  On Youtube Madonna Luers gives a 10+ minute recap of the wolf plan with the 15 breeding pair number in 2009.  Now that we have new information and Idaho is going to adopt that number with other states adopting less, we think we know more than them and can sustain 15 breeding pairs in WA?  We are stuck on that number and I don't understand why we can't back out and change that number.  Phil Andersen clearly told the commission that was not an option for them to consider.  Very frustrating.

If we must live with 15 breeding pairs, we need to change the current definition of what a breeding pair is.  This is an attainable goal.  For example, if we currently have to have successful breeding of a pack for a few years and they must do the breeding in WA, this could be 500+ wolves to get to this number.  However, if we defined breeding pair as a pack that has used portions of WA state as their territory in the last 3 years but may not breed in WA...and have breeding that was successful once in the last 3-5 years but maybe not every year that would also count.  We could hit our 15 breeding pair goal at that definition better than we could 10 breeding pairs at the current definition and management of the wolves could occur quicker.  Maybe it's sneaky attorney speak but when something isn't working for you, modify it so they think they are getting what they want but you are really attaining part or some of your goal.

At the current plan, WA will be in dire straits within 3-10 years with tons of wolves, major impacts, and no plan to do anything about it.  We will have not learned from our neighbors but followed their path.  Blind leading the blind.

[KillBilly]

The only way 15 BPs would be acceptable is if they cast aside the 3 year waiting period and be able to delist immediately. Any delay in delisting would allow wolf populations to grow out of control. Since they don't have a clue what the delisting process looks like or if litigation will tie them up in court for several years, there is no chance of being successful with 15 BPs.

[KillBilly]

Chapter 5

During recovery stages, while wolves are listed in Washington, it is unlikely that they will have a significant negative effect on ungulate populations in the state. However, if WDFW determined that wolf predation was a primary limiting factor for an “at-risk” ungulate population, and the wolf population in that wolf recovery region was healthy (i.e., it exceeds the delisting objectives for that recovery region), WDFW could consider reducing wolf abundance in the localized area occupied by the ungulate population before state delisting occurs.

For the purposes of this plan, an at-risk ungulate population is any federal or state listed ungulate population (e.g., Selkirk Mountain woodland caribou, Columbian white-tailed deer), or any ungulate population for which it is determined to have declined 25% or more below management objectives for three or more years and population trend analysis predicts a continued decline.

For populations for which numeric estimates and/or management objectives are not currently available, it will not be possible to use a specific threshold to assess a need for management action. Instead WDFW will use other sources of information related to the population, such as harvest trends, hunter effort trends, sex and age ratios, and others.

Well it only took us three years, now where is that herd?

They had a very difficult time explaining this to the commission.

[sebek556]

15 BP is one of the biggest complaints! 
I am glad some of the com's called people out on BS, but they need to call WDFW out for its BS as well

[actionshooter]

A couple issues I wanted to bring up about today's meeting.  It appeared at times that Nathan and Rocky tried to overgeneralize and slip some stuff by the commission. 

 Most of the day I felt they were trying to manipulate the numbers (facts) to work with their (andersons's) agenda.
 I see absolutely no reason why they can't reduce the number of BPs?? Basically Anderson said he would rather do nothing than reduce the number.

[KillBilly]

I just remembered this... Phildo stated that we only had 30 wolves in Wash. to date.

I believe they think the balance of known wolves are coyotes...

[sebek556]

a number of years ago I spotted a wolf in the northern cascades, took photos and brought it to WDFW and was told it was a black coyote, when I look at at him like he was retarded he look back at me and said no we have black coyotes here.

[JimmyHoffa]

Well, if DFW are convinced that they are coyotes I guess I can be too.

[asl20bball]

To those that attended...thanks for keeping the rest of us informed. Really wish I could have been there. Keep it up! If anything it appears that some new numbers/FACTS are coming in from other states and hopefully that will help out with a revised plan.

[KillBilly]

To those that attended...thanks for keeping the rest of us informed. Really wish I could have been there. Keep it up! If anything it appears that some new numbers/FACTS are coming in from other states and hopefully that will help out with a revised plan.

Unfortunately, those numbers from other states have been available for some time. WFDW is just stuck on stupid... they spent time and money and refuse to listen to other and newer information.

[TheHunt]

Thank you everyone who attended and represented the Hunting community.  Since Anderson is pro wolf what are our options? 

[mulehunter]

First of all. My major to watch on Anderson and It surprised me after his word come out of his mouth, I found out this state does not give a sh!t about us. They are treehugging liberal granola heads that are Anti hunt/fish to begin with.  If Eastern Wa was not a player in our politics we would have no hunting here.......Period.
Sad but the truth.  Idaho lost $20 million and lost 50% Elk population.

Its not making me happy today after I listen to all Bs stuff what they BELIEVE. but I am glad I shake Anderson's hand. I said U wont get any Penny from me.   



Mulehunter. 

[bobcat]

So the goal is to get these wolves delisted, which if their plan is adopted will take 15 breeding pairs- well my question is even when they're delisted, what is the plan to keep the overall numbers down? Even if they offered unlimited numbers of over-the-counter wolf tags, would hunters even be able to make a dent in the wolf population? That is my main concern. I mean how much effect does hunting have on keeping coyote numbers down? Not much, correct? And coyotes don't even require a tag and there is no limit and no season.

[KillBilly]

First of all. My major to watch on Anderson and It surprised me after his word come out of his mouth, I found out this state does not give a sh!t about us. They are treehugging liberal granola heads that are Anti hunt/fish to begin with.  If Eastern Wa was not a player in our politics we would have no hunting here.......Period.
Sad but the truth.  Idaho lost $20 million and lost 50% Elk population.

Its not making me happy today after I listen to all Bs stuff what they BELIEVE. but I am glad I shake Anderson's hand. I said U wont get any Penny from me.   



Mulehunter.

Tell us how ya really feel Scott....   When he shook your hand did it make you think of Obama..

It was good to finally meet you today. I enjoyed your company.