Wolf meeting

[sebek556]

it is pretty clear the goal is not to delist wolves, it is to end hunting in WA, so that the bad man cannot kill animals, they will just kill each other.

[TheHunt]

I do not know if it does any good but I just sent a note to the Governer about Anderson's blind view on the commission and another one about licensing quads for the road.  I put both on the list of budget concern.  One will reduce the revenue the other will produce revenue for the state.

[Special T]

No it cannot as evidence in AK and ID. Remember the study that talked about the Denali NP and Arial gunning? They couldn't kill more than 3% with out Arial gunning... If you need the data just ask WolfBait for it or search it up... it sounds like the commission is coming around but the WDFW still has no clue!. 

[KillBilly]

So the goal is to get these wolves delisted, which if their plan is adopted will take 15 breeding pairs- well my question is even when they're delisted, what is the plan to keep the overall numbers down? Even if they offered unlimited numbers of over-the-counter wolf tags, would hunters even be able to make a dent in the wolf population? That is my main concern. I mean how much effect does hunting have on keeping coyote numbers down? Not much, correct? And coyotes don't even require a tag and there is no limit and no season.

They were questioned about that several times and the Department did not have an answer. All they could say is it is too early and we have no data to configure an after delisting management plan. Commissioner Conrad Mahnken, PH.D. suggested they use one of the other states management plans as a model and revise it if/and necesary.  They were not receptive to that idea.....go figure.

[mulehunter]

  They said 25,000 Bears in Wa each Bear kill 2 Elk per year. 50,000 killed They are trying to point at other predators. also Cougar 1800-2200 in wa and each cat kill average 50-70 a year. 120,000 killed.
They said Coyotes 44% kill Fawns and small calfs. 18% killed after born,  They also said 1.8% wolves kill Sick weak Herd recently.

Very Diffuclt here to agree everything in Meeting about how to build population herd healthy since four predators, hunter havest, car accident, etc.  Its going be huge impact in 3 years. But.....

They want to wait 3 years to see how much kill and how many population expand wolves, loose population on Elk or Deer thats what they are start watching close. Because they dont want to learn from other state.

By the way My Doctor who saved my life last weekend, She did really work walk by me today at meeting and asked me Hey what ur doing here. By the way How u feeling.     Cant believe that.

Mulehunter.

[bobcat]

mulehunter is being a little hard on the WDFW. Overall, they are not "anti-hunting". There's no way they could be, that would go against their whole purpose of being. Many of the employees are hunters. My feeling is that they don't want the wolves here anymore than we do. But what are they going to do? They have to follow the laws and all the proper politically correct procedures. I'm pretty sure they know that a good portion of their funding comes from us hunters, but they also have the pro-wolf groups pushing for the wolves, and those groups have money and they are more organized than we are. So I really think what the WDFW is doing is trying to come up with a plan that will be acceptable to both sides. It's a compromise. No matter what they do, hunters are going to demand less wolves and pro-wolf people are going to want more.

[actionshooter]

So the goal is to get these wolves delisted, which if their plan is adopted will take 15 breeding pairs- well my question is even when they're delisted, what is the plan to keep the overall numbers down? Even if they offered unlimited numbers of over-the-counter wolf tags, would hunters even be able to make a dent in the wolf population? That is my main concern. I mean how much effect does hunting have on keeping coyote numbers down? Not much, correct? And coyotes don't even require a tag and there is no limit and no season.

That question was asked, there is no plan after delisting to control population. Their attitude was to worry about the delisting 1st and the rest will fall into place. 
 
 One of the commisioners (Douvia) even said that hunting wasn't a effective tool for management, 2% was (i believe) he quoted.

[bobcat]

So basically, if there's no way to control the wolf numbers by hunting, what's the point of this whole wolf plan anyway? We know there will never be any trapping or aerial shooting, or any other effective control methods used in this state. So really does it matter if the goal is 15 breeding pairs? They could set the goal at 5 breeding pairs and we could still end up with too many wolves.

[actionshooter]

mulehunter is being a little hard on the WDFW. Overall, they are not "anti-hunting". There's no way they could be, that would go against their whole purpose of being. Many of the employees are hunters. My feeling is that they don't want the wolves here anymore than we do. But what are they going to do? They have to follow the laws and all the proper politically correct procedures. I'm pretty sure they know that a good portion of their funding comes from us hunters, but they also have the pro-wolf groups pushing for the wolves, and those groups have money and they are more organized than we are. So I really think what the WDFW is doing is trying to come up with a plan that will be acceptable to both sides. It's a compromise. No matter what they do, hunters are going to demand less wolves and pro-wolf people are going to want more.

While I do agree that the majority of WDFW are not anti hunters, I believe the authors of the wolf plan are not in any way pro-hunters.

[actionshooter]

So basically, if there's no way to control the wolf numbers by hunting, what's the point of this whole wolf plan anyway? We know there will never be any trapping or aerial shooting, or any other effective control methods used in this state. So really does it matter if the goal is 15 breeding pairs? They could set the goal at 5 breeding pairs and we could still end up with too many wolves.

That thought has gone through my mind, but I'm not ready to give up yet. 
 
Plus I have room for one in my game room.

[bobcat]

While I do agree that the majority of WDFW are not anti hunters, I believe the authors of the wolf plan are not in any way pro-hunters.

There very well could be some anti-hunters involved, I have no doubt about that. But I just don't think it's fair to say the agency as a whole is anti-hunting.

[sebek556]

a employee could be anyone, someone who loves the sport, someone who wants a pay check, or someone with a agenda. The problem is the agenda people have pushed or been pushed to the top, no even if the rest of the department is not the heads who make the rules are. So guys while I will like always not go down with out a fight, I have a feeling BOHICA is in order.

[rebal69972]

buy the time they come around to delisting them there wont be any game left to hunt and if we cant hunt them neather can the wolves. Montana and Idaho already have this problem and they cant controle it. did Montana even start with this high a number?

[rose673]

Rebal, your exactly right, the one thing that really concerns me that was brought up at the meeting today that nobody answered is okay say we are going to delists them when they hit 150 or 300 breeding pairs... Sounds great, but thats also what Idaho wanted to do since 2002 to when they hit their delisting number but it has been tied up in lawsuits ever since and they are just now getting to manage the wolves, and we all know how their numbers have been affected!  Wish I could have stayed around longer to give me two cents,but I had to leave at 2 to get a group of students back that I brought to here what was going on.

[Caseyd]

Pope I like your way of thinking. There is always something to improve, it's just finding the way to do it. If they are so stuck on 15 bp then the definition of a bp needs to be changed.

Thank you to all who attended today.