Shot Placement ***UPDATED***

[top pin1]

Okay I've shot quite a few animals in my career. Most at close range.

I hope this thread brings up a good discussion from the replies. I learned something from this one.

Here is a cow I got yesterday with my muzzle loader at 26 yards. In the pic you can see I drew a red circle around the entrance wound. She was uphill about a 20 to 25 degree angle and only 26 yards perfectly broadside. The bullet recovered just under the skin on the opposite side was maybe 2" or 3" higher then the entrance.

What organ/s? did I hit and how far do you think she went?

I'll post up the answer in a couple days so lets see some opinions. 

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[sakoshooter]

Both lungs and maybe the top of the heart. Looks like a darn good shot. Congrats.

[Atroxus]

I not managed to get an elk...or deer yet for that matter so my knowledge of elk anatomy is based on pictures only...but I'll give it a shot anyways. I was thinking both lungs, but that it seemed low to hit the heart. I am guessing it didn't make it very far after being shot though, like less than 50 yards?

[jager]

Both lungs and maybe the top of the heart. Looks like a darn good shot. Congrats.

 She took five steps... 
Nice job 

[Todd_ID]

The bottom of the heart is around an inch below the knuckle of the leg, so I'd say you center punched the heart, and she went 140 yards on a dead run and tipped over.  Or she just stood there wondering what happened and tipped over.

[NWBREW]

2011 manastash  works every time. 

[PA BEN]

Heart shot, went about 75yds

[Willis McGee]

Both lungs

[coachcw]

both lungs thirty yards

[jackmaster]

a lung shot it appears do to the pink frothy blood, i would say she went between 20 to 50 yds and piled it up, thats a good shot with minimal meat waistage i like that shot if i aint comfortable with a high shoulder shot, which is the shot i prefer because they hit the deck on the spot, congrats to you, need someone to take that meat off your hands for ya, 

[luv2hunt]

Heart center punch. She fell over dead in her tracks and then went 120 miles in the back of your truck to the meat locker .

[PlateauNDN]

both lungs thirty yards

   I shot my bull at about 20 yards same location as your shot except straight broadside and punctured both lungs, didn't hit the heart and he went about 60 yards down hill before sliding another 40 yards or so and piling up.

[igotbigbulls]

neck all the way.

[quadrafire]

Top of the heart/both lungs.

What is the dark mass on her belly?

[sirmissalot]

Looks like a great heart shot. Hard to say how far she went, every animal is different some can run a good distance with a hole in the heart, but some just stand there and wobble until they bleed out.

[MtnMuley]

Through the heart and she went 200 yds.

[Elknut1]

Possible extreme top of heart but definitely both lungs, less than 50yds.

  ElkNut1

[Bob33]

Double-lung, 250 yards.  If it were a short run, he wouldn't have posted...

[Atroxus]

Double-lung, 250 yards.  If it were a short run, he wouldn't have posted...

I guessed short run cause there is no blood on the hide that I can see...I would think if it ran a ways it would have bled more.

[JimmyHoffa]

I'm thinking heart and dead within a few steps.  Most animals I've seen that were hit in lungs and ran had pink blood about the nose/mouth.  Animals that ran and were hit in the heart had blood running out of the wounds.  I just don't see enough blood....maybe if she ran through a lot of wet brush or something.

[Broken Arrow]

I think its a little far back. I think he just missed the heart and shooting up hill at that angle caused to bullet to hit the bottom of the far side lung. I think he thought it was a good hit but pushed her and realized it was going to take some time so he let off and waited 2 hours for it to expire.

[big wood]

looks like the top of the heart to me. I think the lungs are a couple inches farther back. regardless, a good clean ethical kill. You owed it to her.

[spikehunter]

no heart.  obviously clipped the front of a (the) lungs! excellent shot. and oh ya what is that dark patch on her belly ? (nice big by the way) 

[BOWHUNTER45]

2011 manastash  works every time. 

thats as good as it gets if you ask me man..... 

[BOWHUNTER45]

Nice elk TOP PIN !!!

[steen]

Heart and lungs.

[Biggerhammer]

Both lungs, dropped in her shadow.

[1buckdown]

Lungs and dropped

[wraithen]

Hit no organs and dropped.

[the1rod]

I think its a little far back. I think he just missed the heart and shooting up hill at that angle caused to bullet to hit the bottom of the far side lung. I think he thought it was a good hit but pushed her and realized it was going to take some time so he let off and waited 2 hours for it to expire.

 

[ridgefire]

   aim for the v

[top pin1]

Hit no organs and dropped.

Wraithen about has the closest call but others saying it was a little too far back are correct.

This blew me away when I walked up to her. I hit exactly where I was aiming. The brown spot you see of my shot was stomach internals. No blood.

I shot her at 26 yards. Slightly uphill. She jumped when I shot and went 20 feet and stood there. After about 15 seconds she got wobbly legs and fell over falling down hill to about 20 feet from me. There she couldn't get up and over a couple minutes expired from suffocation.

I'm no coroner so I'm no expert but here is my evaluation. Upon gutting the chest cavity was filled with a ton of dark red blood and mixed with stomach ingredients. My shot actually hit dead center the lower part of the diaphragm and cut in two, also ripped the front of the stomach open allowing that to enter the chest cavity. I dont know about shrapnel hitting organs as I did lose 90 grains of lead and broke a rib going in but upon checking the heart, liver and lungs I saw no damage to them at all. They all looked perfectly undamaged. I don't know about kidneys or any organ that I don't know of.

   I'm assuming I took out the diaphragm and a several arteries behind the heart. Loss of massive blood made her drop so quick but the diaphragm torn is what kept her from being able to breathe and ultimately suffocating.

   Pretty amazing discovery as you see that bullet entry is only four fingers behind the elbow. 4" inches back. Had she been turned to me in any way or had that been a arrow shot I don't believe the recovery would have been good. No blood and no major organs.

   I was lucky and learned that even if you think you made a perfect shot (I still believe I did LOL) the outcome may be not what you saw.

   I'm now aiming much closer to the leg and up about 6" more mid line on the body. After looking over this elk its pretty amazing how far forward the diaphram angles forward on the bottom part of the chest cavity..

  Overall success though I believe I got a little lucky on this one.

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[ridgefire]

knew you were to far back.. follow the front leg staight up and aim for the > and you will have the perfect shot. my buddy hit a bull in the exact same spot this year in idaho and had to put an arrow in it 16 hrs later to finally kill it, bull was to weak to run at that point but still alive. people are taught to aim behind the shoulder but they are aiming to far back imo.

[quadrafire]

Top pin
That is a cool post-----thanks for the education.

[Colville]

I guessed before reading. From the underneath uphill angle and the little bit back I was going to guess liver and maybe off side lung. Was the liver intact?

[LincolnTWilliams]

I did the same thing with my bull last year. I hit a little far back demolished the liver and cut the diaphram.  Is the dark read blood from the liver you think?  Great Post!

[wraithen]

What do I win?!

[top pin1]

I did the same thing with my bull last year. I hit a little far back demolished the liver and cut the diaphram.  Is the dark read blood from the liver you think?  Great Post!

The liver was completely intact. No major organs that I know of showed any damage.. Heart, lungs, and liver.  I as best I could looked over all three of those organs for damage and cysts, flukes etc. None showed anything. ( I dont know what others look like)

[Encore 280]

Hmmmm. Maybe I missed something here but what caused the inerds to pop out? Inquiring minds want to know.

[plugger]

It sounds like it was dead in a couple minutes. I dont see how you could think it was a bad shot. I have had them live longer than that  center punched through the heart,  shot with my rifle.

[top pin1]

Hmmmm. Maybe I missed something here but what caused the inerds to pop out? Inquiring minds want to know.

The diaphragm is the large thin muscle that seperates the vital organs from the guts or innards. It also the muscle that contracts the chest cavity to draw air into the lungs. My shot cut hit that dead center and also cut the front of the stomach opening that up allowing those contents to enter the chest cavity.

Yes it killed this elk but though the shot looks like what they preach to shoot right behind the should this one did not hit any major organs. Had this been slightly quartering to me in any way or been a bow shot I don't believe the results would have been the same.

I was just trying to show that how a great looking shot may not quite be what we think it is. Plus to aim a little higher and more on the leg muscle then where I did.

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[Rainier10]

I think we are still wondering about the bown bulge in front of the utters on the underbelly.

[Encore 280]

That's what I was asking about!! I know what the diaphragm and all that stuff in there does. You mentioned that the brown bulge was the internals. What made them bulge out or what caused the rupture down in that part of the animal?

[wraithen]

The severed diaphragm and the severed stomach. Instead of drawing air into the lung the diaphragm still tried to contract and expand, thus moving stuff around. Stomach contents settled in that area. No?

[npaull]

I agree the ripped diaphragm is what killed her. As a surgeon, I can say just an fyi that the stomach is INCREDIBLY vascular, and if you indeed ripped it for any great length then it would bleed like hell. The reason a stomach shot is usually not very good is just because we punch in and out of it without damaging a lot of the wall. Same goes for the intestines. It is definitely possible for a "gut shot" to drop very fast and bleed a lot, you just have to get lucky and hit major vessels. Or, in the case of the stomach, rip along it for a considerable distance. Either way, if the diaphragm's gone it's game over.

Any shot behind the "elbow" is starting to get a bit far back - usually no problem, but in-line with the elbow, just above it, is the prime spot.

[D-Rock425]

I shot a bull in the same spot back in 04 missed eveything.  I found him the next morning dead he made it about a half mile be for he died but bedded several times in-between.