Is there a need for the cow hunts in SW WA?

[AKBowman]

I have been a firm that the amount of pressure on the elk in this area has more effect than anything.  The fish and game has set seasons from August to January.  The elk here are literally hunted for half of the year.  The article today in the Daily News talks about these January cow tags, and the fact that these tag holders are taking cows with fetus's.  I think there is a way to thin the herd without having such a dramatic effect on the animals themselves.  There is no lax time for them to forage and conserve much need energy.  I think they should lengthen the general seasons we have and do away with stretching out the total numbers of months in the field.

I could'nt agree any more with this statement. The constant pressure and stress that the pressure puts on the elk will lead to more disease. I can't quote studies but I know there has been studies on elk from hunting pressure of wolves in other states and how the constant pressure from not being able to relax all year leads to malnutrition and illness.

IMO there needs to be some consideration that the added pressure from the cow permits may be a leading cause of the spread of HOOF ROT.

[furbearer365]

They say there is a lack of food.  The best place for an elk to find food is in a clear cut, or anywhere open.  How can an elk spend enough time foraging in a clearcut with hunting open for six months straight.  Every elk hunter in the state goes to clear cuts to look, and the elk know that so they try to stay away as much as they can.  Fish and game needs to figure it out

[buckhorn2]

The elk need a little time to rest before they get into the winter no wonder they have no fat they have been running for six months. I had master hunters going through my place again this morning and they start december 16 and hunt until febuary 28 thats almost 7 months and hunters wonder why elk are spooky. I read an article in rocky mountain elk and it said how the elk manage the winter is how they enter the winter. I know they wanted to harvest elk around the winston and toutle so they did;nt starve but what will be left next year if 600 cows were harvested thats a lot of calves that won;t be here next year either.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

If you shut down the factory no goods will be produced...

I have a problem with the january cow tags, you might take one cow out of a group but now the rest of the group is on the run, wasting valuable energy that they don't have this time of year.

If they wanted added harvest they should have added tags to the general hunt.

[buckhorn2]

And another question why do master hunters get 72 days to hunt for a cow in my area which is 658 why is there season so much longer. Most antlerless hunts are much shorter but over 2 months is a little to much time I think to chase elk around day after day.

[BOWHUNTER45]

I have been a firm that the amount of pressure on the elk in this area has more effect than anything.  The fish and game has set seasons from August to January.  The elk here are literally hunted for half of the year.  The article today in the Daily News talks about these January cow tags, and the fact that these tag holders are taking cows with fetus's.  I think there is a way to thin the herd without having such a dramatic effect on the animals themselves.  There is no lax time for them to forage and conserve much need energy.  I think they should lengthen the general seasons we have and do away with stretching out the total numbers of months in the field.

I could'nt agree any more with this statement. The constant pressure and stress that the pressure puts on the elk will lead to more disease. I can't quote studies but I know there has been studies on elk from hunting pressure of wolves in other states and how the constant pressure from not being able to relax all year leads to malnutrition and illness.

IMO there needs to be some consideration that the added pressure from the cow permits may be a leading cause of the spread of HOOF ROT.

my sons elk had no hoof rot but my buddies did ...plus it had one really long toe on the back hoof ... weird !

[steelnducks]

I dont believe that the increase of cow tags are needed in some units. And if they are worried about the elk starving why do they pick a time of the year when increased stress will do more bad then good?

[Arteman]

I dont believe that the increase of cow tags are needed in some units. And if they are worried about the elk starving why do they pick a time of the year when increased stress will do more bad then good?

Yeah that's a great point, makes since doesn't it?

[Basket Rack]

I am not sure how WDFW correlates some elk starving in the mudflow a few years ago to needing to kill cows in the Winston unit.  It is probably more timber company browse complaints that spurred these January tags.  What I want to see if this is a one time deal to reduce herd numbers or if we will see these late cow tags year after year.  My guess is they are a money maker for WDFW and we will not see them go away.  A good example is the Wildwood and Boistfort units, these late Jan. cow tag #'s keep increasing along with the cow tags in the general seasons as well.  Elk numbers in these units have dramatically dropped due to the elevated cow harvest and I am sure  the hoof rot issues have contributed as well.   Is WDFW doing any  management  on these units that is best for the herds or  is it their typical maximize the income to the department approach. 

[Huntbear]

You guys need to understand, the WDFW uses a broad stroke for anything they want to do... not a precise stroke.   Kind of like using a chainsaw when a scalpel is best.

All the elk in the units in SW Washington are considered part of the St. Helens herd.  So they are ALL managed the same way.  Does not make it right.   If they would make these hunts specific to certain PARTS of the area, or shorten the season, or whatever, I am sure we would have guys on here bitching about how they lost opportunity to hunt.   Is January hunts, with 300 guys all looking to fill tags in a couple of units a good idea?  No.  Are the elk stressed beyond belief?  Yes.

So get involved with Washington For Wildlife and get some solutions on the board, and taken to Olympia to see if it can be changed.... 

We have to be PROactive not REactive if we want to be able to have quality hunting in this state.

[Arteman]

I am not sure how WDFW correlates some elk starving in the mudflow a few years ago to needing to kill cows in the Winston unit.  It is probably more timber company browse complaints that spurred these January tags.  What I want to see if this is a one time deal to reduce herd numbers or if we will see these late cow tags year after year.  My guess is they are a money maker for WDFW and we will not see them go away.  A good example is the Wildwood and Boistfort units, these late Jan. cow tag #'s keep increasing along with the cow tags in the general seasons as well.  Elk numbers in these units have dramatically dropped due to the elevated cow harvest and I am sure  the hoof rot issues have contributed as well.   Is WDFW doing any  management  on these units that is best for the herds or  is it their typical maximize the income to the department approach.

Yeah and i just found out yesterday that after the muzzleload Ryderwood cow hunt is over on the 15th or 16th that some modern guys get to go in and slay them tell like the 30th.  Not sure what modern group it is, haven't even picked up the regs.

[bobcat]

I have no idea why they increased the antlerless permits by so much this season. Only thing I can think of is they are trying to alleviate the hoof rot problem.

[Salmo]

I think they should give more tags for the environmentalist.  It's sickening to watch the National Forest to go to hell..  They need to log that sum biatch!  No kitchen=no food=no elk..

Otherwise, I agree with more cow permits..  Higher the Bull to Cow ratio the healthier the herd.  I hunted my arse of this last season.  Every timber stand, every creek bottom and swamp, hrs glassing in a gated unit.   End Result this year,  19spikes,  85 cows.  Not how it should be..  Had I not spent so much time in the brush the spike and cow numbers woulda been alot higher.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I think they should give more tags for the environmentalist.  It's sickening to watch the National Forest to go to hell..  They need to log that sum biatch!  No kitchen=no food=no elk..

Otherwise, I agree with more cow permits..  Higher the Bull to Cow ratio the healthier the herd.  I hunted my arse of this last season.  Every timber stand, every creek bottom and swamp, hrs glassing in a gated unit.   End Result this year,  19spikes,  85 cows.  Not how it should be..  Had I not spent so much time in the brush the spike and cow numbers woulda been alot higher.

Wow ! I only spent 5 days in a gated unit, called in 7 Branched antlered bulls, and 3 cows (different times, not together) saw 37 other Elk, including another branched bull but not able to close the distance, this does not count the 9 other bulls I heard bugle, but never got to see...
I beleive a FEW cow permits are no big deal, it is when they offer 100's to reduce the herd that I object.
I feel that if they want to reduce the herd, it should be by allowing an additional week for all user groups, and reduce the herd by allowing a larger overall harvest, not by eliminating calf recruitment by killing cows, and eliminating production.
as their own mission statement is,

sustain –
and even enhance – hunting opportunities,
care for our wildlife areas, and meet our other
responsibilities for wildlife stewardship in the
coming years.

sustain - and even enhance - hunting opportunities, does not include herd reduction to decrease future harvest. 

[buckhorn2]

There are many permits that I must have passed on in the regulations or maybe just did;nt care about. I talked to the master hunter who is hunting behind my house it is a firearms restricted area and he is hunting cows until febuary 28 then he got an incentive tag for march over at raymond for a bull. He hunted modern and now master hunter cow and then hunter ed. bull thats a long long season and to long in my opinion the elk need some time to rest.