Free: Contests & Raffles.
The Mud Flow elk are the ones that are starving or dying of old age not the ones in the other local units, but they are the ones that are being hit hard, they need to increase the tags in the mud flow not the other areas.
Quote from: wrongway on January 13, 2012, 10:54:27 AMThe Mud Flow elk are the ones that are starving or dying of old age not the ones in the other local units, but they are the ones that are being hit hard, they need to increase the tags in the mud flow not the other areas. but a lot of Elk drop down out of the Margaret, Winston, and Toutle to winter there late in the year after general seasons are over, and then starve. So they need to conduct these hunts in those areas earlier. The gripe is to many wintering elk on the flow are starving and competing for food.
I was very surprised to see no fat at all on my sons elk ... plus there was hardly any meat around the neck ...if I shot one up here where I live I know I would of been carving fat off of it by the bucket loads ....
I have been a firm that the amount of pressure on the elk in this area has more effect than anything. The fish and game has set seasons from August to January. The elk here are literally hunted for half of the year. The article today in the Daily News talks about these January cow tags, and the fact that these tag holders are taking cows with fetus's. I think there is a way to thin the herd without having such a dramatic effect on the animals themselves. There is no lax time for them to forage and conserve much need energy. I think they should lengthen the general seasons we have and do away with stretching out the total numbers of months in the field.
Quote from: furbearer365 on January 13, 2012, 05:55:38 PMI have been a firm that the amount of pressure on the elk in this area has more effect than anything. The fish and game has set seasons from August to January. The elk here are literally hunted for half of the year. The article today in the Daily News talks about these January cow tags, and the fact that these tag holders are taking cows with fetus's. I think there is a way to thin the herd without having such a dramatic effect on the animals themselves. There is no lax time for them to forage and conserve much need energy. I think they should lengthen the general seasons we have and do away with stretching out the total numbers of months in the field.I could'nt agree any more with this statement. The constant pressure and stress that the pressure puts on the elk will lead to more disease. I can't quote studies but I know there has been studies on elk from hunting pressure of wolves in other states and how the constant pressure from not being able to relax all year leads to malnutrition and illness.IMO there needs to be some consideration that the added pressure from the cow permits may be a leading cause of the spread of HOOF ROT.
I dont believe that the increase of cow tags are needed in some units. And if they are worried about the elk starving why do they pick a time of the year when increased stress will do more bad then good?
I am not sure how WDFW correlates some elk starving in the mudflow a few years ago to needing to kill cows in the Winston unit. It is probably more timber company browse complaints that spurred these January tags. What I want to see if this is a one time deal to reduce herd numbers or if we will see these late cow tags year after year. My guess is they are a money maker for WDFW and we will not see them go away. A good example is the Wildwood and Boistfort units, these late Jan. cow tag #'s keep increasing along with the cow tags in the general seasons as well. Elk numbers in these units have dramatically dropped due to the elevated cow harvest and I am sure the hoof rot issues have contributed as well. Is WDFW doing any management on these units that is best for the herds or is it their typical maximize the income to the department approach.
I think they should give more tags for the environmentalist. It's sickening to watch the National Forest to go to hell.. They need to log that sum biatch! No kitchen=no food=no elk..Otherwise, I agree with more cow permits.. Higher the Bull to Cow ratio the healthier the herd. I hunted my arse of this last season. Every timber stand, every creek bottom and swamp, hrs glassing in a gated unit. End Result this year, 19spikes, 85 cows. Not how it should be.. Had I not spent so much time in the brush the spike and cow numbers woulda been alot higher.
sustain –and even enhance – hunting opportunities,care for our wildlife areas, and meet our otherresponsibilities for wildlife stewardship in thecoming years.
Quote from: Salmo on January 21, 2012, 03:38:02 PMI think they should give more tags for the environmentalist. It's sickening to watch the National Forest to go to hell.. They need to log that sum biatch! No kitchen=no food=no elk..Otherwise, I agree with more cow permits.. Higher the Bull to Cow ratio the healthier the herd. I hunted my arse of this last season. Every timber stand, every creek bottom and swamp, hrs glassing in a gated unit. End Result this year, 19spikes, 85 cows. Not how it should be.. Had I not spent so much time in the brush the spike and cow numbers woulda been alot higher.Wow ! I only spent 5 days in a gated unit, called in 7 Branched antlered bulls, and 3 cows (different times, not together) saw 37 other Elk, including another branched bull but not able to close the distance, this does not count the 9 other bulls I heard bugle, but never got to see...I beleive a FEW cow permits are no big deal, it is when they offer 100's to reduce the herd that I object.I feel that if they want to reduce the herd, it should be by allowing an additional week for all user groups, and reduce the herd by allowing a larger overall harvest, not by eliminating calf recruitment by killing cows, and eliminating production.as their own mission statement is, Quotesustain –and even enhance – hunting opportunities,care for our wildlife areas, and meet our otherresponsibilities for wildlife stewardship in thecoming years. sustain - and even enhance - hunting opportunities, does not include herd reduction to decrease future harvest.
"sustain –and even enhance – OUR paycheck,care for our wildlife areas, and meet OUR OTHER responsibilities in thecoming years, so WE have jobs.
I drew a tag and claimed a winston cow this January on a new hunt this year, designed to thin the herd. I am conflicted on the topic. On one hand, I always want to see herd size increase, no matter what, and I feel that thinning the cows is a bad idea. But, I am supposed to trust that Wildlife has the herds best interest in mind, that they are the professional managers of the resource and I should trust their decision making process. ( Have they reduced cow hunt numbers in other units?)On the other hand, there may just be more elk there than we know. My cow hunt lasted until 10am of day 1. At dawn I found a sizeable herd, but they were busted up by a couple of other hunters shooting at greater distance than I was from the animals. I claimed my cow on the second encounter of the morning. There are obviously elk in the area, even after a long long hunting season of a lot of pressure. So, this is the rub, I want herd size to increase, yet there I was applying for the new hunt to help keep my freezer full. I guess I am part of the problem? If I was a better bull hunter maybe I would not apply for these types of hunts... Do I fully trust that wildlife is sponsoring hunts that are needed to keep the herd healthy? Has greed caused me to apply for a hunt I am not sure needed to be exercised? My biggest concern regarding all of the permit hunts in this state is that I do feel they may be about money. Sell off the herds to fatten the state coffers, not about proper game management. I envision a future where every single hunt in the state is a pay to play permit hunt, where all of us are just robotically submitting permit apps and paying fees in order to simply be considered to even be able to hunt. The odds of getting drawn for any hunt worsen every year and I do not see how they can change the methodology of it. How can they now yank points out from guys feet after they have applied for years? Just like welfare. Get us invested in the program and you are committed to it. Do guys want to see the system scrapped and watch their quality hunt app points zeroed out for a better plan? A lot of guys have max points for quality hunts and cringe at the thought of others like myself blowing points on a lousy cow hunt. I hear you. I am a meat hunter, so it feel like I have thrown caution to the wind when applying for a meat hunt. So hear I sit not sure if I am part of the problem of; or part of a solution to game management.
The whole point of such a long late hunt is to reduce the herds on there wintering grounds.... highly doubt there is that many elk hanging around in some of these areas in Sept or early Nov... Am I wrong ? All I can say is that cow my son got may be one of the best dang elk I ever layed my lips on
So, this is the rub, I want herd size to increase, yet there I was applying for the new hunt to help keep my freezer full. I guess I am part of the problem? If I was a better bull hunter maybe I would not apply for these types of hunts... Do I fully trust that wildlife is sponsoring hunts that are needed to keep the herd healthy? Has greed caused me to apply for a hunt I am not sure needed to be exercised?
