2 n 3 point minimum

[summit creek]

vote

[bobcat]

I don't quite understand the question. What do you mean by "2 n 3"?

Did you mean to say 2 OR 3 point minimum?

[billythekidrock]

Yea, a bit confusing to me as well.

I would consider voting for a 2 pt min for modern if youth and seniors could shoot spikes. I would never go for a 3pt min with BTs.

[Curly]

Yea, a bit confusing to me as well.

I would consider voting for a 2 pt min for modern if youth and seniors could shoot spikes. I would never go for a 3pt min with BTs.

[buglebuster]

If they made it 3pt min over there, you guys would see a lot bigger deer in a few years. As it is now every spike and forky gets shot up and no chance to grow. Who says blacktail don't get big?

[summit creek]

yes i ment do u want a 2 pt or 3 pt minimum

[summit creek]

buglebusters right 3 point all the way

[huntnphool]

 I would like to see them lift the 3 point min requirement in most of the east side units for a couple years then evaluate again. West side for the next three year set and then evaluate it.

 I think it initially helped the herds on the east side but should have been off again on again type system, but the units that were already 3 point min. should remain.

 I wish they would pull their heads out of their arses and come up with a youth 2 point tag that went through November.

[summit creek]

y bad idea?

[summit creek]

i respect u 4 that

[lokidog]

2 point might be OK but I will fight tooth and nail against an across the entire westside 3 point min.  The reason being that only a small percentage of the bucks here (on Decatur Island) have brow tines, let alone more than a fork.  Maybe put a 3 or 4 inch minimum length on spikes since the ones with those little pencil sized ones can be pretty small.

[wraithen]

I get the point but this will be my first year hunting. Ever. I live wetside so that is where I can scout. I'd rather not eat tag soup just because I'm not seasoned. Wife wants venison and that's all I care about. After a few seasons I'll be more selective, but I like having a choice to fill the freezer if possible.

[Lcl 66 Tinner]

2 point might be OK but I will fight tooth and nail against an across the entire westside 3 point min.  The reason being that only a small percentage of the bucks here (on Decatur Island) have brow tines, let alone more than a fork.  Maybe put a 3 or 4 inch minimum length on spikes since the ones with those little pencil sized ones can be pretty small.

I like this idea better then a point restriction. BT are the most elusive of all deer and its already hard enough, let alone putting restrictions on

[Kowsrule30]

If you want antler restrictions for BT hunt the Mashel unit......       

[kglacken]

I would love to see a 2 point minimum on the westside. Not only would the size of the deer increase, but it would give them more years of life to breed with the does, therefore causing the herd to grow in numbers. I would love to see this in the skookumchuck unit more than anything. I know some people will not agree with this theory, but i would love to see them close down the vail tree farm for modern for about 3 years and only allow 50 youth tags for rifle. Then after the 3 years, I would like to see them open up the farm again with a 2 point minimum. This would eliminate the spikes being harvested (other than poaching) and would allow for more deer to mature and breed more does. Now I am no biologist, but i believe this theory would work. Maybe not but i would like to see them try something like this. I love hunting vail because of the amount of land there is and its a fun place to hunt, but the quality of the deer has went down drastically over the past few years. Hopefully the Wdfw wil do something to change that in the future.

[grundy53]

2 point would be fine. No way on the 3 point. Hard enough getting a shot in the brush without having to try to count points to make sure it's not a 2 point.

[Turner89]

I love hunting big blacktails, but think antler restriction would be bad idea. As elusive as BTs are I think that it would make it to difficult for begginners, and may turn some away from the sport.
     In the area that i hunt, big BTs are hard to find but that is most of the fun.

I think it's a bad idea because not everyone is a trophy hunter. Some guys hunt to put food on the table for there family. I'm not that guy I like big bucks like most people. I just don't believe we should stick it to that guy because we want more monster bucks. There's plenty of big bucks out there.

[D-Rock425]

4PT min

[bobcat]

A 2 point minimum for blacktails would be ok, but even better, if you want to increase the deer population, would be to decrease the overall harvest. Which would mean permit only or some other way to reduce the number of hunters, or reduce the number of days hunted. Not saying I want that, but it's just a better way to do it than antler point restrictions.

If nothing else, the antlerless harvest could be eliminated. I know that's a lot to ask, especially since they're now selling 2nd deer tags for antlerless blacktail deer for $70. But if deer numbers aren't over capacity then why are they allowing so much antlerless harvest?

[Bigshooter]

keep it the way it is.

[summit creek]

dont care 4 the mashell unit any more tomany people

[blacktail luv]

Three years ago they changed the unit I hunt the most ( West klick) to 3pt minimum, due to a lot of us local guys wanting to see bigger deer.  I'll admit that I was all for it when it was happening.  I was sure it would boost the amount of big buck that would be around in the years to come.  Well I'm here to tell you it has been an utter failure as far as I can tell.  All these antler restrictions do in my opinion is give the cougars more young deer to eat during the winter.  The age class of the deer has not went up, as I had hoped.  This last year was abysmal.  Our herd is continuing to decline.  The idea of an apr are great but for me they don't seem to be helping in my unit. The root of the problem is PREDATORS, plain and simple.  I'm afraid that we are on a downward spiral with no end in sight.

[bobcat]

You know what they need to do, is give an incentive for anyone who kills a cougar- 10 points for every dead cougar, same as poachers.

[Turner89]

Yea, I don't think you can manage blacktail like MD & WT

[kglacken]

You know what they need to do, is give an incentive for anyone who kills a cougar- 10 points for every dead cougar, same as poachers.

That is a good idea. Probably would never happen, but it would sure be a nice reward for people who helped out the deer population with a cougar kill!

[summit creek]

i would love 2 see a 3 point minimum in the storm king unit and the skookumchuck unit dont really care about the rest but a 2 pt minimum on the whole west side would really be good in terms of quality and buck 2 doe ratio let the small bucks live

[Turner89]

Personally I don't care because I hunt all private land and hold out for specifc bucks when it comes to blacktail. It is nice to be able to harvest a doe when it comes down to the wire, and I have done this a couple times now. The only reason I would be against it is because on the peninsula where I hunt I don't see any shortage of deer and big bucks are almost impossible to locate other then the rut IMO. There are already mature BT's out there, they just make it a habit to only move at night and hang out in nasty brush. Some of the biggest BT buck I have seen were only in the rut in person, they even eluded my cams. I vote no.

 Yea I agree with you Sundance. Same with my area. Except I don't hunt private land (well I do hunt private timber land open to the public). maybe thats what you meant by private land?

[summit creek]

i guess most people dont get it by leting the 80 pound 2 inch spikes live and the 2 pts it makes 4 great buck hunting in the future look at oregon 2pt minimum 4 black tails we went down there blind folded and killed 3 out of 4 tags only cause 1 guy missed it would have been 4out of 4 two 4x3 bucks and a 3x2 prety good black tail hunting for not knowing the area we seen a total of 8 bucks in 6 days smallest being a 2x2

[elksnout]

What you get with 3  point restrictions are a bunch of dead 2 points left for the varmits from guys who can't count.  Three words....LEAVE IT ALONE!!

[throttlejocky20]

2 pt min on the whole west coast. Nothing bad could come from that.

[grundy53]

i guess most people dont get it by leting the 80 pound 2 inch spikes live and the 2 pts it makes 4 great buck hunting in the future look at oregon 2pt minimum 4 black tails we went down there blind folded and killed 3 out of 4 tags only cause 1 guy missed it would have been 4out of 4 two 4x3 bucks and a 3x2 prety good black tail hunting for not knowing the area we seen a total of 8 bucks in 6 days smallest being a 2x2

I guess you don't get it. There are a lot of people that don't care about horns.

[sirmissalot]

3 point minimum for black tails would be ridiculous, many times you don't have time to count points, 2 point minimum is easy, if you see a rack kill it. That said, I'd love to see a 2 point minimum for blacktails in most units, one of the units I hunt a lot already has it and there are a lot of deer there and good success rates. It kills me to see all the little spikes killed on opening weekend every year. If you want meat go to the store and buy it... A lot cheaper in my experience.

[JimmyHoffa]

About the only way I could support point restrictions on blacktails would be by increasing season length for each additional point you add to the restriction.  The blacktails, from what I've seen, are more apt to stay nocturnal than the other deer.  Plus the terrain they typically inhabit requires they move more compared to the other deer (based on brush density).  If you want to keep the hunter harvest numbers (25%) close to what they are now, I would think that the season would need to be extended.  I personally have NO problem with seasons overlapping (i.e. modern elk with modern deer or with muzzy seasons).  I think WDFW doesn't like the hunters mixing because of the few that whine the most. 
For 2010, GMU 568 had--423 bucks ( 156 spikes, 145 2pts, 72 3pts, 38 4pts, 12 5+pts).  Seems to be similar breakdown across the westside.  I'd think with the current season length, especially with a run of dry/warm weather it is wise to shoot first legal animal if you want meat.
Another thing is the predators (mainly cats).  I think the tags should be unlimited.  If you want to add antler point restrictions, then the cats should be reduced to allow those deer to survive another year.  Let people shoot all the cats they can, not just one.  So few people hunt cats anyways, it is not like they will all be cleared out, but maybe enough to allow certain deer herds to have increased survival.

[grundy53]

3 point minimum for black tails would be ridiculous, many times you don't have time to count points, 2 point minimum is easy, if you see a rack kill it. That said, I'd love to see a 2 point minimum for blacktails in most units, one of the units I hunt a lot already has it and there are a lot of deer there and good success rates. It kills me to see all the little spikes killed on opening weekend every year. If you want meat go to the store and buy it... A lot cheaper in my experience.

I agree. I would be fine with a 2 point restriction.

[buckhorn2]

I feel same as Grundy it would work for me. I hunted one year in eastern oregon where they made it a 4 point or better and there were big 3 points shot mistaken for 4 points and the game department changed the law the next yeat because of that reason.

[summit creek]

I feel same as Grundy it would work for me. I hunted one year in eastern oregon where they made it a 4 point or better and there were big 3 points shot mistaken for 4 points and the game department changed the law the next yeat because of that reason.

im sorry guys i like big bucks its not fare for me to want the rest of u guys to want 2 or 3 point minimus on b tails it really dont mater were i hunt i dont see a soul and wont shoot a 2 point but if lots of guys pass up these 90 pound spikes dont u think the buck hunting would be so much greater

[RB]

Yes I understand the biology and get APR's to an extent, but the practical side of most humans is $500 for a rifle (or bow) lord knows how much for mode of transportation and fuel to get there $$$? Food, beverages, and maybe lodging PLUS around $100 or more for a couple pieces of paper to make you legal to harvest an animal. Then throw in a youngster trying to get there first animal it makes it impractical to do. Yes I know it is about the experience and time with friends and family, but what do most want? To be able to say they harvested an animal and have something to show for the hundreds if not thousands of dollars they have put into getting that 90lb spike 

[throttlejocky20]

i guess most people dont get it by leting the 80 pound 2 inch spikes live and the 2 pts it makes 4 great buck hunting in the future look at oregon 2pt minimum 4 black tails we went down there blind folded and killed 3 out of 4 tags only cause 1 guy missed it would have been 4out of 4 two 4x3 bucks and a 3x2 prety good black tail hunting for not knowing the area we seen a total of 8 bucks in 6 days smallest being a 2x2

I guess you don't get it. There are a lot of people that don't care about horns.

Putting a point restriction isnt about shooting bigger deer, it helps but it also improves the the the animals. You would have better quality animals with better geans doing more of the breeding.

[lokidog]

i guess most people dont get it by leting the 80 pound 2 inch spikes live and the 2 pts it makes 4 great buck hunting in the future look at oregon 2pt minimum 4 black tails we went down there blind folded and killed 3 out of 4 tags only cause 1 guy missed it would have been 4out of 4 two 4x3 bucks and a 3x2 prety good black tail hunting for not knowing the area we seen a total of 8 bucks in 6 days smallest being a 2x2

I guess you don't get it. There are a lot of people that don't care about horns.

Putting a point restriction isnt about shooting bigger deer, it helps but it also improves the the the animals. You would have better quality animals with better geans doing more of the breeding.

Not necessarily.

Here on Decatur Island we mostly have bucks that will never develop brow tines or forks in their forks (i.e. they will be forks for their entire lives), we have some that will have brow tines with their forks, and fewer yet that will have branched antlers with or without brow tines (in five years here I have seen maybe five deer with branched antlers).

If you were to implement a three point or better rule for deer here, you would soon remove all of the genes for branched antlers or brow tines because there are few of them to begin with and there is little to no migration of new genetics into this gene pool.

In a population that has a better balance of genetics to begin with, you may not end up with this problem but in some areas you will.  I would still place my choice on a two point over a three point restriction for the westside as a blanket restriction.  I still believe it is a better idea to use management tools like antler restrictions based upon the needs of the population of animals in a certain area, not as a blanket regulation.