Sol Duc wild steelhead management zone established

[TheHunt]

Exactly,  What rivers am I targetting?  Hatchery river fish.  WSU, you are right on target.  Wynoochee river is a huge hatchery run.  That is why I am targeting that river.  BTW, Thanks for your help.  I am not sure why Teal is getting his shorts in a knot.

Nothing has changed my argument still stands... I have only been fishing since last October.   I am good to go as long as I have a place to fish, I can bonk them and take them home. 

Ignorant yes,  Zealot NO!   <Humor> HA HA HA you will have to sell that to someone else as I am not buying any of that...    Heck you might be one of them Zealots for all that I know.   You might be one of them folks who says fish have feeling too and they cry when you hook them in the mouth. </Humor>  I will stay ignorant for a while.  I do not have time to read up all the fishing crap to determine who is who in the zoo.  Will I get to it? YES, but my first objective is to learn to catch the darn things legally. If I cannot catch them than I should give up and find something else to do during the hunting off season. 

Lately I have been spending all my time:
1.  trying to figure out the access points, deciphering the regs, finding the locations which fish hold up on the Wynoochee river.
2.  how to successfully catch fish when I go fishing. This is the most complicated part of fishing for me.  I have read many books and I am starting to feel confident in figuring out were the fish are at in the river.
3.  putting in for out of state elk hunts.

Once I start catching them and feel confident in my ability I can than spend some time reading about the fishery and how messed up or hopless, or what ever it is.

If you feel the need to bonk every fish then go fish in a river that is full of hatchery fish.  Plain and simple, there are tons of rivers that have harvestable hatchery fish.  It doesn't matter if you've fished for 40 years or 4 months.  If you only want to bonk fish, go to rivers with fish in them that were made to be bonked.  To shorten your learning curve, go fish the cowlitz.  It has hatchery fish there for the bonking 12 months a year.  You could fill freezers full if that is all you want. 

I've helped you and gave you very specific advice in order to help you catch fish.  You probably know that I'm not a "zealot" (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context).  I like to eat fish, and dozens every year.  There is no reason to be selfish and screw up one of the few remaining relatively healthy runs left just so you can bonk fish.  If you feel you must "take your ball and go home" if not allowed to bonk fish on the 'duc, feel free.

[teal101]

My attitude is right on.   All the poor branch antler areas are draw only and based on WDFW biologist estimates.  The bull to cow ratios are well documented.  The targeted areas have been diminished based on helping mule deer or other species. 

I am starting to think in your world if it is not perfect you will not participate.  I am not that way.

Your attitude is way off, as well as your argument.  You just proved my point.  There are plenty of rivers with poor wild returns that are open to hatchery fish.  There are a few waters with good wild returns that allow fishing for wild fish as well as hatchery.  You can still take a wild fish home from the Sol Duc if you so please.

Your last comment proves your ignorance.  Really?  I'll fish to the day I die for whatever I damn well please, so long as I can ethically do so.  I fish for Steelhead, but not natives.

[teal101]

I never said, nor has the WDFW, that the WDFW does not support sport fishing.  What I said is that the WDFW's main goal is native fish recovery.  Everything else will take a back seat to the native fish recovery goals.  The WDFW obviously supports sport fishing by allowing you a season   Their main goal, fish, bird, or big game, is management of the resource so we all have an opportunity at harvest or sightseeing dependent upon our venue.  The Methow and the Sol Duc are VERY different rivers.  Again I implore you to take up some reading on this subject.  You will begin to understand why the Methow is a poor choice for a wild Steelhead recovery river and why the Sol Duc is a great choice.  Furthermore, you can still fish the Sol Duc, catch as many as you want, and carefully release them, I fail to see where your argument is here.  First you want to bonk as many fish as you can, now you want to catch and release carefully wild fish.  Make up your mind, your argument lacks cohesion.

WDFW's main goal is NOT native fish recovery.  It is politics and money.  If native fish recovery was the main goal, you would close every river not exceeding wild escapement goals to the sportman, tribes and commercial fishermen.  That will never happen.
[/quote]

You go ahead and break Federal Law and close the tribes down.  You go ahead and withstand the public revolt when you close the fishing season to all users.  It's not that simple.  It's called balance.  So you're right it will never happen.

[teal101]

I dont see why you feel the need to blast this decision based solely on your own selfish greed to bonk fish.

Exactly,  What rivers am I targetting?  Hatchery river fish.  WSU, you are right on target.  Wynoochee river is a huge hatchery run.  That is why I am targeting that river.  BTW, Thanks for your help.  I am not sure why Teal is getting his shorts in a knot.

Nothing has changed my argument still stands... I have only been fishing since last October.   I am good to go as long as I have a place to fish, I can bonk them and take them home. 

Ignorant yes,  Zealot NO!   <Humor> HA HA HA you will have to sell that to someone else as I am not buying any of that...    Heck you might be one of them Zealots for all that I know.   You might be one of them folks who says fish have feeling too and they cry when you hook them in the mouth. </Humor>  I will stay ignorant for a while.  I do not have time to read up all the fishing crap to determine who is who in the zoo.  Will I get to it? YES, but my first objective is to learn to catch the darn things legally. If I cannot catch them than I should give up and find something else to do during the hunting off season. 

Lately I have been spending all my time:
1.  trying to figure out the access points, deciphering the regs, finding the locations which fish hold up on the Wynoochee river.
2.  how to successfully catch fish when I go fishing. This is the most complicated part of fishing for me.  I have read many books and I am starting to feel confident in figuring out were the fish are at in the river.
3.  putting in for out of state elk hunts.

Once I start catching them and feel confident in my ability I can than spend some time reading about the fishery and how messed up or hopless, or what ever it is.

If you feel the need to bonk every fish then go fish in a river that is full of hatchery fish.  Plain and simple, there are tons of rivers that have harvestable hatchery fish.  It doesn't matter if you've fished for 40 years or 4 months.  If you only want to bonk fish, go to rivers with fish in them that were made to be bonked.  To shorten your learning curve, go fish the cowlitz.  It has hatchery fish there for the bonking 12 months a year.  You could fill freezers full if that is all you want. 

I've helped you and gave you very specific advice in order to help you catch fish.  You probably know that I'm not a "zealot" (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context).  I like to eat fish, and dozens every year.  There is no reason to be selfish and screw up one of the few remaining relatively healthy runs left just so you can bonk fish.  If you feel you must "take your ball and go home" if not allowed to bonk fish on the 'duc, feel free.

[Dhoey07]

I never said, nor has the WDFW, that the WDFW does not support sport fishing.  What I said is that the WDFW's main goal is native fish recovery.  Everything else will take a back seat to the native fish recovery goals.  The WDFW obviously supports sport fishing by allowing you a season   Their main goal, fish, bird, or big game, is management of the resource so we all have an opportunity at harvest or sightseeing dependent upon our venue.  The Methow and the Sol Duc are VERY different rivers.  Again I implore you to take up some reading on this subject.  You will begin to understand why the Methow is a poor choice for a wild Steelhead recovery river and why the Sol Duc is a great choice.  Furthermore, you can still fish the Sol Duc, catch as many as you want, and carefully release them, I fail to see where your argument is here.  First you want to bonk as many fish as you can, now you want to catch and release carefully wild fish.  Make up your mind, your argument lacks cohesion.

WDFW's main goal is NOT native fish recovery.  It is politics and money.  If native fish recovery was the main goal, you would close every river not exceeding wild escapement goals to the sportman, tribes and commercial fishermen.  That will never happen.

You go ahead and break Federal Law and close the tribes down.  You go ahead and withstand the public revolt when you close the fishing season to all users.  It's not that simple.  It's called balance.  So you're right it will never happen.
[/quote]

Never said it was that simple.  But don't sit there and act like wdfw has your back and gives a *censored* about you.  You are asking us to trust wdfw to manage our fish and wildlife after we have seen them fail so many times in the past.

[TheHunt]

I have stated that I am targeting Wynoochee River hatchery fish.  It is illegal to bonk native steelhead on the Wynoochee.  Teal, I am thinking you are NUTS/INSANE!!!   I will be bonking hatchery steelhead on the Wynoochee.  You are still NOT happy with that. 

Please tell me why I should NOT be bonking hatchery steelhead on the Wynoochee.   

I dont see why you feel the need to blast this decision based solely on your own selfish greed to bonk fish.

Exactly,  What rivers am I targetting?  Hatchery river fish.  WSU, you are right on target.  Wynoochee river is a huge hatchery run.  That is why I am targeting that river.  BTW, Thanks for your help.  I am not sure why Teal is getting his shorts in a knot.

Nothing has changed my argument still stands... I have only been fishing since last October.   I am good to go as long as I have a place to fish, I can bonk them and take them home. 

Ignorant yes,  Zealot NO!   <Humor> HA HA HA you will have to sell that to someone else as I am not buying any of that...    Heck you might be one of them Zealots for all that I know.   You might be one of them folks who says fish have feeling too and they cry when you hook them in the mouth. </Humor>  I will stay ignorant for a while.  I do not have time to read up all the fishing crap to determine who is who in the zoo.  Will I get to it? YES, but my first objective is to learn to catch the darn things legally. If I cannot catch them than I should give up and find something else to do during the hunting off season. 

Lately I have been spending all my time:
1.  trying to figure out the access points, deciphering the regs, finding the locations which fish hold up on the Wynoochee river.
2.  how to successfully catch fish when I go fishing. This is the most complicated part of fishing for me.  I have read many books and I am starting to feel confident in figuring out were the fish are at in the river.
3.  putting in for out of state elk hunts.

Once I start catching them and feel confident in my ability I can than spend some time reading about the fishery and how messed up or hopless, or what ever it is.

If you feel the need to bonk every fish then go fish in a river that is full of hatchery fish.  Plain and simple, there are tons of rivers that have harvestable hatchery fish.  It doesn't matter if you've fished for 40 years or 4 months.  If you only want to bonk fish, go to rivers with fish in them that were made to be bonked.  To shorten your learning curve, go fish the cowlitz.  It has hatchery fish there for the bonking 12 months a year.  You could fill freezers full if that is all you want. 

I've helped you and gave you very specific advice in order to help you catch fish.  You probably know that I'm not a "zealot" (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context).  I like to eat fish, and dozens every year.  There is no reason to be selfish and screw up one of the few remaining relatively healthy runs left just so you can bonk fish.  If you feel you must "take your ball and go home" if not allowed to bonk fish on the 'duc, feel free.

[teal101]

I'm thinking you need to learn how to read   Did I say you shouldnt be bonking hatchery fish on the Wynoochee?  No I didnt.  In fact I think you should bonk every damn hatchery fish you see to rid their poor genetics from the wild population.  What is irritating is the fact you are so damn selfish you feel as if the state should not close down the Sol Duc hatchery so you can kill more fish instead of restoring native runs.  It's pathetic, just like your attitude.  Theres no point in continuing on with this seeing as that you cant even understand my points.  Keep on opposing changes like this and when our future generations ask about Steelhead fishing, all we will have is fond memories of a time long ago destroyed by greed.

I have stated that I am targeting Wynoochee River hatchery fish.  It is illegal to bonk native steelhead on the Wynoochee.  Teal, I am thinking you are NUTS/INSANE!!!   I will be bonking hatchery steelhead on the Wynoochee.  You are still NOT happy with that. 

Please tell me why I should NOT be bonking hatchery steelhead on the Wynoochee.   

I dont see why you feel the need to blast this decision based solely on your own selfish greed to bonk fish.

Exactly,  What rivers am I targetting?  Hatchery river fish.  WSU, you are right on target.  Wynoochee river is a huge hatchery run.  That is why I am targeting that river.  BTW, Thanks for your help.  I am not sure why Teal is getting his shorts in a knot.

Nothing has changed my argument still stands... I have only been fishing since last October.   I am good to go as long as I have a place to fish, I can bonk them and take them home. 

Ignorant yes,  Zealot NO!   <Humor> HA HA HA you will have to sell that to someone else as I am not buying any of that...    Heck you might be one of them Zealots for all that I know.   You might be one of them folks who says fish have feeling too and they cry when you hook them in the mouth. </Humor>  I will stay ignorant for a while.  I do not have time to read up all the fishing crap to determine who is who in the zoo.  Will I get to it? YES, but my first objective is to learn to catch the darn things legally. If I cannot catch them than I should give up and find something else to do during the hunting off season. 

Lately I have been spending all my time:
1.  trying to figure out the access points, deciphering the regs, finding the locations which fish hold up on the Wynoochee river.
2.  how to successfully catch fish when I go fishing. This is the most complicated part of fishing for me.  I have read many books and I am starting to feel confident in figuring out were the fish are at in the river.
3.  putting in for out of state elk hunts.

Once I start catching them and feel confident in my ability I can than spend some time reading about the fishery and how messed up or hopless, or what ever it is.

If you feel the need to bonk every fish then go fish in a river that is full of hatchery fish.  Plain and simple, there are tons of rivers that have harvestable hatchery fish.  It doesn't matter if you've fished for 40 years or 4 months.  If you only want to bonk fish, go to rivers with fish in them that were made to be bonked.  To shorten your learning curve, go fish the cowlitz.  It has hatchery fish there for the bonking 12 months a year.  You could fill freezers full if that is all you want. 

I've helped you and gave you very specific advice in order to help you catch fish.  You probably know that I'm not a "zealot" (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context).  I like to eat fish, and dozens every year.  There is no reason to be selfish and screw up one of the few remaining relatively healthy runs left just so you can bonk fish.  If you feel you must "take your ball and go home" if not allowed to bonk fish on the 'duc, feel free.

[teal101]

I never said, nor has the WDFW, that the WDFW does not support sport fishing.  What I said is that the WDFW's main goal is native fish recovery.  Everything else will take a back seat to the native fish recovery goals.  The WDFW obviously supports sport fishing by allowing you a season   Their main goal, fish, bird, or big game, is management of the resource so we all have an opportunity at harvest or sightseeing dependent upon our venue.  The Methow and the Sol Duc are VERY different rivers.  Again I implore you to take up some reading on this subject.  You will begin to understand why the Methow is a poor choice for a wild Steelhead recovery river and why the Sol Duc is a great choice.  Furthermore, you can still fish the Sol Duc, catch as many as you want, and carefully release them, I fail to see where your argument is here.  First you want to bonk as many fish as you can, now you want to catch and release carefully wild fish.  Make up your mind, your argument lacks cohesion.

WDFW's main goal is NOT native fish recovery.  It is politics and money.  If native fish recovery was the main goal, you would close every river not exceeding wild escapement goals to the sportman, tribes and commercial fishermen.  That will never happen.

You go ahead and break Federal Law and close the tribes down.  You go ahead and withstand the public revolt when you close the fishing season to all users.  It's not that simple.  It's called balance.  So you're right it will never happen.

Never said it was that simple.  But don't sit there and act like wdfw has your back and gives a *censored* about you.  You are asking us to trust wdfw to manage our fish and wildlife after we have seen them fail so many times in the past.
[/quote]

Yet in other areas they have succeeded.  They are always going to be fighting a losing battle with anadromous fish so long as there are dams on the rivers.  They are always going to be fighting the people who oppose tactics such as select harvest, which I would like to see them implement on the sea lions.  Theyre going to have to fight the people who get up in arms over the closure of a hatchery because there are less fish to take home now.

The Wild Steelhead Coalition actually got the WDFW to make the OP a catch and release fishery for ALL wild Steelhead.  They Mayor opposed the ruling stating that families would STARVE if they could not keep wild Steelhead.  Let's disregard the fact you're allowed retention of ONE wild a year.  It is garbage like that they have to contend with.

In all honesty I think they are doing an OK job at managing the fisheries, not so much the land wildlife.

[TheHunt]

I am glad I have your approval to bonk hatchery steelhead.  Thanks, we now have that covered.

I think you have painted youself in a corner.  I stated in at least three post I do not care if the Sol Duc is closed and only for native steelhead.  So how can that be selfish?  I think you need to learn to read as well.  Did you go to the same high school I went to?   

I'm thinking you need to learn how to read   Did I say you shouldnt be bonking hatchery fish on the Wynoochee?  No I didnt.  In fact I think you should bonk every damn hatchery fish you see to rid their poor genetics from the wild population.  What is irritating is the fact you are so damn selfish you feel as if the state should not close down the Sol Duc hatchery so you can kill more fish instead of restoring native runs.  It's pathetic, just like your attitude.  Theres no point in continuing on with this seeing as that you cant even understand my points.  Keep on opposing changes like this and when our future generations ask about Steelhead fishing, all we will have is fond memories of a time long ago destroyed by greed.

I have stated that I am targeting Wynoochee River hatchery fish.  It is illegal to bonk native steelhead on the Wynoochee.  Teal, I am thinking you are NUTS/INSANE!!!   I will be bonking hatchery steelhead on the Wynoochee.  You are still NOT happy with that. 

Please tell me why I should NOT be bonking hatchery steelhead on the Wynoochee.   

I dont see why you feel the need to blast this decision based solely on your own selfish greed to bonk fish.

Exactly,  What rivers am I targetting?  Hatchery river fish.  WSU, you are right on target.  Wynoochee river is a huge hatchery run.  That is why I am targeting that river.  BTW, Thanks for your help.  I am not sure why Teal is getting his shorts in a knot.

Nothing has changed my argument still stands... I have only been fishing since last October.   I am good to go as long as I have a place to fish, I can bonk them and take them home. 

Ignorant yes,  Zealot NO!   <Humor> HA HA HA you will have to sell that to someone else as I am not buying any of that...    Heck you might be one of them Zealots for all that I know.   You might be one of them folks who says fish have feeling too and they cry when you hook them in the mouth. </Humor>  I will stay ignorant for a while.  I do not have time to read up all the fishing crap to determine who is who in the zoo.  Will I get to it? YES, but my first objective is to learn to catch the darn things legally. If I cannot catch them than I should give up and find something else to do during the hunting off season. 

Lately I have been spending all my time:
1.  trying to figure out the access points, deciphering the regs, finding the locations which fish hold up on the Wynoochee river.
2.  how to successfully catch fish when I go fishing. This is the most complicated part of fishing for me.  I have read many books and I am starting to feel confident in figuring out were the fish are at in the river.
3.  putting in for out of state elk hunts.

Once I start catching them and feel confident in my ability I can than spend some time reading about the fishery and how messed up or hopless, or what ever it is.

If you feel the need to bonk every fish then go fish in a river that is full of hatchery fish.  Plain and simple, there are tons of rivers that have harvestable hatchery fish.  It doesn't matter if you've fished for 40 years or 4 months.  If you only want to bonk fish, go to rivers with fish in them that were made to be bonked.  To shorten your learning curve, go fish the cowlitz.  It has hatchery fish there for the bonking 12 months a year.  You could fill freezers full if that is all you want. 

I've helped you and gave you very specific advice in order to help you catch fish.  You probably know that I'm not a "zealot" (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context).  I like to eat fish, and dozens every year.  There is no reason to be selfish and screw up one of the few remaining relatively healthy runs left just so you can bonk fish.  If you feel you must "take your ball and go home" if not allowed to bonk fish on the 'duc, feel free.

[Dhoey07]

Teal-

I understand your point of wanting to preserve native steelhead.  There aren't very many left in WA and the sol duc is a great river to preserve them in.  But the cutting a very successful hatchery, that produced fish that minimally effected wild fish is not the answer.  Like a previous link i had posted, wild fish escapement has gone up in the sol duc since the implementation of the project.  If they would have made their pet project on the Dickey, lyre or elwah i would be less upset.

[jackmaster]

here is a serious question from a novice fisherman, what makes a native steelhead a native steelhead,? it cant just be the adipose fin right, cause i know a on a monday after a hard nights drinkn some hungover *censored* dont want anything to do with clipn nasty ole fish first thing in the mornin when they are lookn for the cat that crapped in their mouth   

[JimmyHoffa]

If they would have made their pet project on the Dickey, lyre or elwah i would be less upset.

The elwha is getting its own pet projects, and now instead of the 325 million for the dam removal and the 16 million hatchery the feds built for the tribe they'll now be able to tack on the millions that the new lawsuits are likely to incur.

[teal101]

Teal-

I understand your point of wanting to preserve native steelhead.  There aren't very many left in WA and the sol duc is a great river to preserve them in.  But the cutting a very successful hatchery, that produced fish that minimally effected wild fish is not the answer.  Like a previous link i had posted, wild fish escapement has gone up in the sol duc since the implementation of the project.  If they would have made their pet project on the Dickey, lyre or elwah i would be less upset.

Heres my theory on the closure.  The Sol Duc has one of the highest native runs in the state.  They've seen an increase in runs over the years.  The increase in native fish has outweighed any negatives the hatchery fish had.  They have decided to preserve this large wild run and eliminate the hatchery fish.  The sole reason for the closure is how successful the wild fish are there.  Now they can implement the practices used on the Sol Duc on other rivers to attempt increasing native runs.  I have a feeling this isnt the last we've seen of hatcheries run this way, nor is it the last of the hatchery removal.  It is preservation of the gene bank as I've heard it called.  Keep this fish as isolated as possible so when they need pure wild fish for a hatchery they can get them from the Duc.

[WSU]

here is a serious question from a novice fisherman, what makes a native steelhead a native steelhead,? it cant just be the adipose fin right, cause i know a on a monday after a hard nights drinkn some hungover *censored* dont want anything to do with clipn nasty ole fish first thing in the mornin when they are lookn for the cat that crapped in their mouth   

The short answer is genetics.  Those fish are genetically different (which has been verified through sampling). 

[WSU]

Teal-

I understand your point of wanting to preserve native steelhead.  There aren't very many left in WA and the sol duc is a great river to preserve them in.  But the cutting a very successful hatchery, that produced fish that minimally effected wild fish is not the answer.  Like a previous link i had posted, wild fish escapement has gone up in the sol duc since the implementation of the project.  If they would have made their pet project on the Dickey, lyre or elwah i would be less upset.

Wild fish do seem to be doing well on the duc.  The problem is the Snider program hasn't been monitored well enough to tell if that is because of the program, in spite of the program, or independent of the program.  All that is known is that it appears to be doing OK but nobody really knows, and that nearly every other broodstock program that has had sufficient study shows that broodstock programs don't work (Hoodriver being the most recent and well known study).  Broodstock programs are nothing new and exist all over.  There hasn't been one yet that has done what it is supposed to.