New archery season proposal?????

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Keep buying licenses to fund the 'blow off' statements from the state.

[Swatson]

I have been doing a lot of reading, in the many, many threads in this site; most especially subjects dealing with Archery Hunting of Bear, Deer, and Elk.  I have been picking up a lot of information from all of you more experienced hunters out there and I thank you ALL very much.  As I become more learned and experienced, I, too, may feel knowledgable enough to offer my  worth.  For now, I will just continue to read.

In this thread, I read a lot about how we Archery Hunters - me being a novice - are not getting as much of the Elk Rut as the ML and MR Hunters are.  In my search to understand my prey more, I found a site,  http://www.trmichels.com/ElkActivityGraphs.htm and in there I read that the rut is well into the Archery Hunting Dates.  At this site, charts were offered and explainations were given to help understand the rut, the times and why the bugeling occures, etc.

Now, unless the author of this site, "T. R. Michels",  is out there without a bow, and doesn't even know how to spell elk, what he is saying makes a lot of sense and, rather than getting 'shafted' on the hunt, we are getting the best time for the hunt.

In order to ensure that I don't join those out there without a bow, I would like someone, on this thread, to explain to me why the information on the furnished site is wrong, if it is.  I am not interested in any ranting and raving about this, that, or something else, I am one who needs to know the facts to understand the rating ant raving.  Once I have all the, accurate, information, I will digest it and, may, if I find it is warrented, join those doing the ranting and raving.

If there is a problem (only determinable after gathering all of the facts and digesting them), there are only two ways one can proceed; 1) One can rant and rave, without providing a solution, and be a part of the problem; or 2) One can identify the problem and a, viable, solution, and present it to those who make the decisions.  I have always believed you are either part of the problem or part of the solution.  I, for one, would rather be part of the solution.

Just my  woth.

Good on you for trying to learn as much as you can!  You will usually find in most cases the ruting season to begin the first of September to the first part of October, generally speaking when either talking to people or reading books.  In Washington St I've bugled in Bulls as early as late August and as late as mid October.  However, generally, you will find that the rut doesn't really kick into gear until mid Sept and beyond.  That being said, I've had elk bugling off the hook on opening day and I've had years where I could hardly find an elk to talk by the last day of the season.  Every year is different but the later the season starts the better your chances are getting to hunt the rut.  Thats why it is so concerning to all of us bowhunters, they are essentially taking these valuable days away from us where the elk are more likely to be vocal and putting them on the front end of our hunt where we have less odds of getting to effectively hunt elk in the rut.  The weather is also a concern as most have mentioned as well.  The later in the month the season is the less chance we have of getting the hot weather!   

[Wildsau]

I understand the weather concerns, but, if I am understanding the information I have gathered, thus far, the rut depends  a grat deal on the weather.  The cows need the food for their young and if the rut starts too early, there may not be enough grass to produce enough milk after the calves are born.  If the rut starts too late, the cow may not find enough food to giver her the strength required to gt her and her unborn calf through the winter.  I know this is a balance only mother nature can do, but the changes in the opening date won't be able to work as accurate as Mother Nature's clock.  From what I am seeing, the trend is good for archers and not as good for ML and MR.  I will, however, continue to gather more information.  Who know, one day, I may be able to spell elk. 

Perhaps, with the fire danger, the FS might be able to allow Archery Hunters in, on foot, to the closed areas.  Another possible solution.

[bobcat]

National Forest normally does not close due to fire danger, and neither does state land. But most private timberland will be shut down.

From what I've heard, it's actually better to hunt before the rut, if you want to bugle in the mature bulls. Once the rut starts and they get a harem of cows, they are more likely to run from a bugle than to go to it.   

[JLS]

I understand the weather concerns, but, if I am understanding the information I have gathered, thus far, the rut depends  a grat deal on the weather.  The cows need the food for their young and if the rut starts too early, there may not be enough grass to produce enough milk after the calves are born.  If the rut starts too late, the cow may not find enough food to giver her the strength required to gt her and her unborn calf through the winter.  I know this is a balance only mother nature can do, but the changes in the opening date won't be able to work as accurate as Mother Nature's clock.  From what I am seeing, the trend is good for archers and not as good for ML and MR.  I will, however, continue to gather more information.  Who know, one day, I may be able to spell elk. 

Perhaps, with the fire danger, the FS might be able to allow Archery Hunters in, on foot, to the closed areas.  Another possible solution.

Actually, the rut is dependent upon photoperiod.  When a specific cow comes into estrous is dependent upon when she calved.  The timing of the rut will not vary by any appreciable amount from year to year.

Weather plays a significant role in how observeable the rut behavior is, ie. if it's hot the elk won't typically be out in the middle of the day.  I've witnessed cold and snowy days in the middle of September where the elk bugled all day long.  I've also seen days where the elk would bugle all night long, but during the day you'd swear there wasn't one in the county.

If it's warm out, and elk are hard to find, you'd best be rolling out of the sack at around 0300 and getting into the woods

[PolarBear]

There should be no rut hunts at all for deer or elk.   

[D-Rock425]

You're going to have a hard time setting any seasons if you don't want any rut hunts at all.

[blackveltbowhunter]

    I can only speak to Westside having never hunted the Eastside, But here is my  .  Wildsau... You hit the nail on the head about providing a solution. I think the main concern from the majority here is we had one.... A start date On the 8th. Changing the start dates CREATED the problem. The solution is already presented.

    As far as the rut goes its a mystery to me and tho I learn more each season, I am constantly humbled and baffled and always come away with more questions than answers. The only consistency I have found is that cooler weather leads to increased daytime elk ACTIVITY.  It also doesnt help me one bit to have scouted a bunch of bulls only to have the area locked up the day before the opener. With that said.... My observations in the past is that we will often get some type of weather around the middle of september loosening up restrictions, and increasing that daytime elk activity. With a start date of the 8th you are more likely to be able to take advantage of that window.

   You will get no argument from me in regards to the new start dates coinciding with at the very least pre rut action in the areas I hunt. My point is that in order to capitalize on it you need some weather to increase elk activity and loosen fire restrictions. This is more likley to happen deeper in September.

   

[Swatson]

The bottom line here is that the majority of archery elk hunters would rather hunt later in Sept than earlier in Sept for the above mentioned reasons!  Yes you have a better chance at hooking up with a bigger bull earlier in the season but I'll take my chances later in the season when the rut really gets into the swing of things!  I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that thought process!

[bobcat]

The bottom line here is that the majority of archery elk hunters would rather hunt later in Sept than earlier in Sept for the above mentioned reasons!  Yes you have a better chance at hooking up with a bigger bull earlier in the season but I'll take my chances later in the season when the rut really gets into the swing of things!  I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that thought process!

That's a totally true statement! And to go along with that, the majority of modern firearm deer hunters would prefer that the deer season be from November 1-15. (I wonder if we can talk the WDFW into changing it to what we would prefer?) 

[Swatson]

Bobcat, you are clearly not an archery hunter and are missing the point!  Sure if we are now talking about picking our seasons, lets make it Sept 18th through October 2nd!  It wasn't like the 8-21st was just this amazing season where we got to hunt the prime of the rut!  The problem is they are making it a less desirable season than what we had.  Thats it!  get it?

[PolarBear]

Less desirable?  Us archery hunters have the most liberal/longest seasons of any user group and you are b!tching about moving a few dates?  It sounds like a bunch of spoiled bratts!  If you have to rely on the rut to get your animal, maybe you need to brush up on your actual stalking skills.   

[bobcat]

Bobcat, you are clearly not an archery hunter and are missing the point!  Sure if we are now talking about picking our seasons, lets make it Sept 18th through October 2nd!  It wasn't like the 8-21st was just this amazing season where we got to hunt the prime of the rut!  The problem is they are making it a less desirable season than what we had.  Thats it!  get it?

Not sure why it's so clear that I'm not an archery hunter? I may hunt elk with a bow this year, or I may not. I'll let you know in a couple months what I decide to do. The archery tag gives you the best seasons and units to hunt. I just think it's funny that so many want to complain about the timing of it. As someone else pointed out, in a couple years it will start on the 8th again.

I'm no expert on the elk rut because I haven't hunted elk in the rut very often. But I do know many experts prefer to hunt before the bulls get their harems together. Have you not heard that theory? Apparently the bulls are much more likely to respond, and to come in to a call, earlier in September than they are later. So the funny thing is, if they were to start the season later, they'd get complaints that the season isn't early enough.

This reminds me of a phrase that my wife always says to my kids- "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit!" And that's the way I feel about this. If you think the muzzleloader season has better timing, then do that instead of archery. Or go modern firearm if you want to hunt in November. There are lots of choices, people aren't forced into buying an archery tag every year. You can change from one year to the next like I do.

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Very well stated Bobcat. Or blow out of this state and archery hunt in a state where the season is the whole month of september!

[JLS]

Very well stated Bobcat. Or blow out of this state and archery hunt in a state where the season is the whole month of september!

Or, do two states.