Triple Seven

[jbeaumont21]

So I went to Whole Sale sports today to pick up some Triple Seven powder and the guy working the gun counter told me that he spoke with a Hodgdon rep who said that the Triple Seven was intended to only be used with the 209 primer.  He also said that if used with a musket primer or a number 11 primer you will have a greater risk of a misfire.  I then went to Hodgdon's website and here's what it says " Use Triple Seven only in a 209 primer ignition system."  http://www.hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html   
My question is why in the hell do they sell the stuff everywhere if it is intended for a 209 primer which we can't even use in Washington??  For those of you who use Triple Seven in WA, how does it perform?  Is it worth risking a misfire on an elk to have an easier time cleaning the gun?

[fair-chase]

Are we talking about pellets or loose powder? The article listed is specifically talking about pellets, so that might be where the variation lies. Were you inquiring about pellets or loose powder?

[jackelope]

 

I've heard 777 pellets do not work well with non-209 primers but I'm using loose 777 with no issues.

[50CalJim]

I've been using Triple 7 powder with #11 caps for years & I've never had an issue.

[buckman202]

always used 777 loose with never an issue.

[Whitelightning]

T7 Loose has NO issues with #11 or Musket caps never has, only issue can be the crude ring. T7 and Most ALL Pellets are designed to be used with 209 ignition, the (glue) product used to hold the powder in the pellet shape makes the powder harder to ignite thus the need for the 209. Pellets also seem to be more susceptible to moisture. I have used T7 for years in all kinds of weather and have Never had a misfire. T7 typically will give very consistant results.

[Timberstalker]

I have used Triple 7 PELLETS with a musket cap for the past 3 years and I have not had a problem whatsoever.

[jbeaumont21]

According to the Hodgdon rep even the loose powder is meant to only be used with the 209 primer.  He said that it does not ignite as well as the pyrodex when using a number 11 or musket primer. I'm glad to hear that none of you have had any issues using it.  I am going to call Hodgdon customer service tomorrow to get some clarification and will let you know what they say. Hopefully they just mean the pellets.

[jbeaumont21]

I have always just used the pyrodex powder but thought I would look into using the Triple Seven because of how little residue it leaves and how easy it is supposed to be to clean out of the gun.

[BullMagnet76]

I use 150 grains of pyrodex with a mucket cap.  I tried that 777 and it did not fire immediately there was a delay.  Never had any issues with pyrodex, works awsome

[huntnnw]

i use musket caps and loose T7 and have never had a issue

[dawhunt]

I've used 777 for awhile now (loose) and have never had any proplems with it .He must have been talking about the pellets Which store were you in

Bob

[jbeaumont21]

Hey all, sorry to start a thread with misinformation.  I spoke with a Hodgdon tech this morning and he said that the loose powder is perfectly fine to be used with a number 11 and musket primer and it is just the pellets that need to be used with the 209.  I think the guy at Whole Sale Sports in Vancouver was also misinformed.  My apologies if I got anyone worked up over this, it was not my intention. Consider us to better educated now.  I think I will be making a trip back to Wholesale to pick me up some T7 and educate the guy at the gun counter.

[Sabotloader]

Hey all, sorry to start a thread with misinformation.  I spoke with a Hodgdon tech this morning and he said that the loose powder is perfectly fine to be used with a number 11 and musket primer and it is just the pellets that need to be used with the 209.  I think the guy at Whole Sale Sports in Vancouver was also misinformed.  My apologies if I got anyone worked up over this, it was not my intention. Consider us to better educated now.  I think I will be making a trip back to Wholesale to pick me up some T7 and educate the guy at the gun counter.

The only thing I might add in this conversation and I have been using T7 since it showed up with caps... I really would make sure that you indicate #11 Mag Caps versus the regular #11 cap, ALTHOUGH, the rgular #11 will work just fine in warmer weather.  Another point I might make is I have change to t7-3f in my cap guns, it will ignite a bit easier than does T7-2f especially at temps below -10*.  A lot of the heat produced by the #11 mag and Musket (which do produce the same temperatures) caps is absorbed by the cold metal of the nipple and BP, at these negative temperatures especially after spending several hours out in it.., so at times not enough heat can reach the powder itself.

I shoot Rondy events all spring and summer with a regular #11 cap from my Renegades...
 

[JimmyHoffa]

I wonder if Wholesale passed down some bad training about 777?  I went to the one in Silverdale and asked to see what magnum rifle primers were available and the guy brought me boxes of 777 pellets.  Kept saying that they were 'primers'.   

[johnsc6]

I had been told the same thing but never had a problem the little german made "water resistant" #11's.

[Sabotloader]

I had been told the same thing but never had a problem the little german made "water resistant" #11's.

Dem RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075+ #11 caps really good ones...

[Whitelightning]

I had been told the same thing but never had a problem the little german made "water resistant" #11's.

Dem RWS Dynamint Nobel 1075+ #11 caps really good ones...

Yes the Dynamit Nobel 1075+ caps are hands down the best. 3800 of em in my safe.

[BigGoonTuna]

i haven't taken my gun out in any nasty november weather yet, but i haven't have a single misfire with loose T7 and CCI #11 mag caps in all the target shooting i've done so far.  tried pyrodex pellets and had a misfire within 3 shots...

[johnsc6]

I had been told the same thing but never had a problem the little german made "water resistant" #11's.

Dem RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075+ #11 caps really good ones...

yep thats the ones

[whitetailslyr]

Triple 7 FFFg and #11 mag caps have always worked for me

[longrangekiller]

Mine gose pop bang with triple 7 ever time with any other powder it just gos bang anyone know y?

[WonkyWapiti]

I shoot 777 pellets using the German musket caps in my Knight Bighorn and have had great success and no misfires.  Typically I hunt deer in Eastern WA scrub land.  Last year I also hunted elk in the wettest nastiest place on earth, Forks WA.  I did not have any issues there either and I was pleasantly surprised.

My hunting partner however using his CVA cannot shoot 777 pellets in his gun to save his life and has to use Pyrodex pellets.  The 777 pellets in his CVA often have a delay from the crack of the trigger pull to the boom of the powder going off. 

[Sabotloader]

Mine gose pop bang with triple 7 ever time with any other powder it just gos bang anyone know y?

T7 is harder to ignite than the others.... Questions?  Which rifle? which cap are you using?

If you are using a CVA or Traditions, remember they use the metric system and their flash channels and flash holes are smaller than the American counterparts.

[longrangekiller]

Mine gose pop bang with triple 7 ever time with any other powder it just gos bang anyone know y?

T7 is harder to ignite than the others.... Questions?  Which rifle? which cap are you using?

If you are using a CVA or Traditions, remember they use the metric system and their flash channels and flash holes are smaller than the American counterparts.

im using cci musket caps and yes it is a traditions evolution. is there other breach plugs with bigger flash holes or anything that u know of that i could try? because it dose shoot a better group with the 777 but i just dont like the pop bang it always makes me pull my shot most of the time when im not on the bench 

[Sabotloader]

Mine gose pop bang with triple 7 ever time with any other powder it just gos bang anyone know y?

T7 is harder to ignite than the others.... Questions?  Which rifle? which cap are you using?

If you are using a CVA or Traditions, remember they use the metric system and their flash channels and flash holes are smaller than the American counterparts.

im using cci musket caps and yes it is a traditions evolution. is there other breach plugs with bigger flash holes or anything that u know of that i could try? because it dose shoot a better group with the 777 but i just dont like the pop bang it always makes me pull my shot most of the time when im not on the bench

The only thing I could suggest would be try a different nipple.  The problem is that the flash hole in your current nipple is to small to pass enough heat to ignite the T7.  Also switching from T7-2f to T7-3f could help as it is a bit easier to ignite.

Look through this thread... when you get to the one I put in with nipple pictures it shows a musket nipple and #11 standing on the post showing the flash hole.  Both of these measure right at 0.032" - I would bet your Traditions nipple is tighter at 0.029/0.030 except it would be in metric.

You could take your current nipple to a machine shop have the flash hole measured and drilled out to 0.031/0.032"

[WonkyWapiti]

Sabotloader, you're brilliant.  I never realized this was the reason why my buddy had issues with  his CVA.  I just never thought of this but it makes total sense.

Mine gose pop bang with triple 7 ever time with any other powder it just gos bang anyone know y?

T7 is harder to ignite than the others.... Questions?  Which rifle? which cap are you using?

If you are using a CVA or Traditions, remember they use the metric system and their flash channels and flash holes are smaller than the American counterparts.

[Sabotloader]

Sabotloader, you're brilliant.  I never realized this was the reason why my buddy had issues with  his CVA.  I just never thought of this but it makes total sense.

Mine gose pop bang with triple 7 ever time with any other powder it just gos bang anyone know y?

T7 is harder to ignite than the others.... Questions?  Which rifle? which cap are you using?

If you are using a CVA or Traditions, remember they use the metric system and their flash channels and flash holes are smaller than the American counterparts.

Now I would not go that far... and I would also add that measure a CVA flash hole and see what you get before we all get to excited... I do believe a hole of 0.031-2 is the optimum

[longrangekiller]

thanks for the help sabotloader ill give it a try

[Kowsrule30]

I use Pyrodex Pellets.... Never had an issue....   

[WAcoyotehunter]

I've heard 777 pellets do not work well with non-209 primers but I'm using loose 777 with no issues.

+1 I love the 777 loose powder.

[Elk whack master]

Where do you get your german caps?

[Chesapeake]

I used to shoot them German caps(musket type). Fell for the whole "they are hotter" advertising hype. One year I got a bad tin of them and now I'm back to CCI. Never an issue with CCI.

The ones I got, they go off, but they are real weak. I had a couple of misfires on elk and was back at camp and had walked outside the tent to fire off a few caps just checking things. I couldnt tell holding the gun, but when I walked back in the tent the guys asked "Whats the deal with your caps? They arent very loud."

So I opened another tin and tried a few of those. Big difference. Went from the sound of a 22 short to that of a 22 mag.

Sometimes my gun would fire, sometimes just pop a cap.

Re-learned a few lessons on that one.
#1: Never go into a hunt with a new untried batch of anything.
#2: If it aint broke, dont fix it till it is.


CCI #11's have set off every load of 777 powder I've placed in front of one. I've gone through lots of them plastic jugs of the stuff.

[Sabotloader]

Chesapeake

I hope you are indicating #11 Mag caps.. If you hunt in the really cold - sub freezing you will want the mags...

[Chesapeake]

Sabotloader,

I've used the mag version, but also the standards with never an issue. I hunt SW Washington. Most hunts are in the 40's and wet, with some in the 30's with wet snow.

I've tried most all of it over the years, RWS, CCI, musket, #11, #11mag. Honestly it all worked except the bad tin of the RWS stuff.

Muskets are a bit easier to handle and get on and off the nipple, but the cap holders are much bulkier, and its harder to find a quality made one. Plus they tend to get crushed up in the dispenser in the heat of battle or if the spring catch piece is too stiff. The wing dings just dont make them very friendly to inline dispensers.

I've had the charge fall out of musket caps. Never had that with a #11 yet. But I check them all. Green in a RWS and Salmon colored in a CCI.

#11's have nice little dispensers, they also fit 1 each sealed in a TC spead loader for backup. I say backup cause the one in the cap is harder to put on the nipple than one from a dispenser. They dont crush up in the dispensers.

I've done testing and the gains in velocity between a musket cap and a #11 were minimal. Somewhat less than 100 FPS as I remember.

I carry my dispenser around my neck or tied on my belt and in my pocket and the musket caps didnt handle the sweat and moisture as well as the #11's do.

I change out my caps after every days hunt and put them in a tin marked with a "P" for practice. Each day starts with fresh caps. From then using the practice tin on the range over the years I've found that the #11's survive almost everything I put them through, while the musket caps didnt fare so well. It makes for an interesting data point, though not very scientific or controlled.

[Wacenturion]

I've heard 777 pellets do not work well with non-209 primers but I'm using loose 777 with no issues.

Correct, the issue has been with pellets, not loose 777.