String Jump Video

[jaymark6655]

Decided to video tape a bow shot to see what a deer hears as far as release and how long it would have to react.  Let me know what you guys think.  As a note, I try never to shoot at alert deer so they don't duck the string.

[Machias Bowhunter]

Cool video, use to own a Martin Pantera about 13 years ago, had Bill at The Nock Point sell it by a Fury, now with a Hoyt Katera.

[Todd_ID]

Cool video.  Here's one of shots from 15-18 yards that should answer your question:

[mtbiker]

Todd, I'm pretty sure those deer are from The Matrix.  You know, the worse kind to try to shoot.   

[lokidog]

You say almost 300 fps for your bow, but at 40 yards (120 ft), if it takes 0.51 s then your speed is less than 240 fps?

Interesting perspective though.

Todd, that's pretty good evidence of why going for a heart shot might be best... then they can duck into a lung shot.  Those are some scrawny, and jumpy, deer.

[jaymark6655]

You say almost 300 fps for your bow, but at 40 yards (120 ft), if it takes 0.51 s then your speed is less than 240 fps?

Interesting perspective though.

I measured it myself on the crono,  more accurate measurement might be calculated at 20 yards since arrows slow down a lot.

distance=time*speed

60 feet / .2 seconds = 300 fps

[lokidog]

I guess so, didn't take the slowing down into consideration.

[jaymark6655]

So people that commented on the video that Todd posted said, "don't shoot at deers with the heads down, they are already loaded."  Is this true?  My last bow was much, much slower (a lot quieter) and I always tried to shoot when they were feeding or walking, but not stopped and alert.  Never had one completely move out of the way like those deer did.

[fair-chase]

Good video Jaymark.

Most interesting to me was that the noise was almost non existant at the 60 yard mark during that little wind gust. It didn't seem to take much to really muzzle the sound of the shot. Oh and kudos for not shooting the camera. 

[WapitiFreak]

just wanted to say two things on this 1 when you were shooting from 20 i could actually hear you nock your arrow. 2 did anyone else notice that the last arrow (in the video of the deer ducking under all the shots) the arrow actually ricochets off the deer. 

[jechicdr]

Here's what I might hypothesize from those videos.  If you are shooting a slow bow, might be better to "add 10 yards" to your point of aim (use 20 yard pin for 30 yard shot), or hold low.  The first deer in the video would have ducked the "heart" shot.  You would have had to have aimed just under the deer to have connected.  When they upped the poundage, a heart shot would have connected most, but might have been a little high in the chest cavity.  If you have a fast bow, you could probably hold right on or gone for a heart shot on at very short distances given the short reaction time.  If you are shooting 50-60 yards though, the sound coming from the bow did not seem very "threatening" and you might be able to hold right on.

The information I would like to know is what decibel level would it take to initiate the ducking response and how fast the average ducking speed was.  I suspect at 60 yards, the deer would be unlikely to duck and at under 30 yards the deer would always duck...but just might be too slow for it to matter.

If you had that information, you could probably develop an adjustment for various distances for particular bows adjusting for bow noise and arrow speed (possible example:  at 10 yards, arrow would hit point of aim, 20 yards would hit 4 inches high, 30 yards would hit 8 inches high, 40 yards would hit 8 inches high, 50 yards would hit 4 inches high, and 60 plus would hit point of aim if the deer heard above threshold noise to duck the string).

That would be a helpful bit of information.  I had 2 whitetail deer duck arrows last season at 15-20 yards shooting out of a blind from my Mathews Z7.  I admit I was aiming for center of mass.  After seeing these videos, I would likely aim for heart at short distances from now on.

[kentrek]

You say almost 300 fps for your bow, but at 40 yards (120 ft), if it takes 0.51 s then your speed is less than 240 fps?

Interesting perspective though.

I measured it myself on the crono,  more accurate measurement might be calculated at 20 yards since arrows slow down a lot.

distance=time*speed

60 feet / .2 seconds = 300 fps

your distance formula is correct but the speed for an arrow has a few more variables.also im not sure how you mesured the .2 seconds.

all tech stuff aside,this is good stuff to think about before pulling the trigger.

[jaymark6655]

You say almost 300 fps for your bow, but at 40 yards (120 ft), if it takes 0.51 s then your speed is less than 240 fps?

Interesting perspective though.

I measured it myself on the crono,  more accurate measurement might be calculated at 20 yards since arrows slow down a lot.

distance=time*speed

60 feet / .2 seconds = 300 fps

your distance formula is correct but the speed for an arrow has a few more variables.also im not sure how you mesured the .2 seconds.

all tech stuff aside,this is good stuff to think about before pulling the trigger.

Yeah, the time measurement is probably the most inaccurate part.  At 20 I was able to play frame by frame to see when the limbs on the bow started to move to getting the starting time.  For the target impact I had to rely on the impact sound and then pause the video so the time is probably shorter than .2 seconds depending on how slow my reaction times was.  I measured it several times to try and remove as much error as possible.  No way am I going to sit there and try to figure out drag and stuff like that.

Good catch Wapiti and that is why I hunt nocked.

[BULLBLASTER]

Here's what I might hypothesize from those videos.  If you are shooting a slow bow, might be better to "add 10 yards" to your point of aim (use 30 yard pin for 20 yard shot), or hold low.

if you use your 30 yard pin at 20 yards then you are actually aiming high.    I always aim for half way up the body. Never had one jump or duck to miss. I have willed whiteys from 10-60+ yards with my bow.

[huntnnw]

i have always aimed just above the heart to mid body...I have in 15+ years of bowhunting whitetails have 3 bucks that ducked arrows..one was a clean miss, the other a graze and the last was a hit and had to finish off

[Todd_ID]

Here's a bit more insight on this.  Your video said "about 300 FPS" for your bow.  So I found a buddy's setup saved in my archery software program of a Bowtech Guardian that flings a 391 grain Maixma Hunter arrow at 293 FPS at 72# draw weight and compared the flight times and speeds versus if he turned it down to 50# draw weight and shot the same arrow 253 FPS.  The results:

Distance, Speed, Flight Time of 72# Draw Weight
0, 293, 0
20, 283, .208
30, 279, .315
40, 274, .423
50, 269, .533
60, 265, .646

Distance, Speed, Flight Time of 50# draw weight
0, 253, 0
20, 244, .241
30, 240, .365
40, 236, .490
50, 232, .618
60, 228, .748

My take is that at the ranges deer are normally taken (20-30 yards) the difference in time of flight is negligible and should not be used as a reason to shoot the lightest arrow possible and the highest draw weight imaginable in order to gain top speed.  Most archers would likely be much more effective as a hunter with a very heavy arrow and much lower draw weight; heavy arrows equate to quieter bows and more momentum; lower draw weight equates to steadier holds, less extraneous drawing motion and longer windows of opportunity while at full draw.

As for trying to decide "how low to aim" there are way too many variables to stick with one set of rules.  For instance, most deer are missed high from a treestand due to poor form rather than string jumping.  Combine poor form with a bit of string jump, and you can miss an entire animal by 36".  Our deer jump the string far less, as a general rule, than those in that video (likely from Texas where small, jumpy deer are famous).  Mule deer jump the string less than a whitetail in the same circumstances.  Elk rarely jump the string at all.  (Although I did have a big 6 point bull entirely duck an arrow at 20 yards once; I heard his his chest literally hit the dirt.)  I don't know anything about blacktails.

Experience is the key in deciding how and when to shoot at that particular animal in those particular circumstances.

[Chesapeake]

just wanted to say two things on this 1 when you were shooting from 20 i could actually hear you nock your arrow. 2 did anyone else notice that the last arrow (in the video of the deer ducking under all the shots) the arrow actually ricochets off the deer.

You can see a tuft of hair fly up off the last deer. I dont think I could see the ricochete though.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Do you hear the sound from the bow going off before the arrow hits the target ....thats what makes them WHITETAIL jump the string ...... My Mathews they only feel the arrow zipping threw them 

[jechicdr]

Do you hear the sound from the bow going off before the arrow hits the target ....thats what makes them WHITETAIL jump the string ...... My Mathews they only feel the arrow zipping threw them 

Not until your arrow is flying 1125 feet per second.

[TheHunt]

I think Norse's wife was standing out of camera range and that distracted the arrow and the sound.   

[romaknows]

i had a 6x6 bull elk,  duck the string at 40 yards, alot of people dont think an elk will do that.

[jechicdr]

Ducking the shot is always a good excuse for missing

[BOWHUNTER45]

yeah I can not say I ever had an elk jump the string ....even at 50 yrds ...again its a Mathews topped off with a 100 gr wasp ... not much survives 

[seth30]

Great video and thanks for the insight