Margaret and Nooksack

[furbearer365]

I noticed that the fish and game took the Margaret and Nooksack out of the Quality hunts and put it into the Bull hunts.  Why would they do that?   

[bobcat]

I don't know why Margaret is in there, except so that they can give people a reason to buy the bull category applications. I wasn't going to buy one, was only going to buy quality and antlerless. But now I'm not sure, might have to apply for Margaret too, along with everybody else.   

That's the problem, this makes it much harder to draw Margaret, and it will also make it harder to draw Toutle, because now more people will apply for it since Margaret is in a different category.

The Nooksack is only the spike only permits in the bull category, and that makes sense. But Margaret is "any bull" and obviously those should be in the quality category.

[shanevg]

No idea on Margaret.  Nooksack hunts are all spike only.  Any bull hunts are still quality.

[Bearhunter]

Yup all the Bull hunts are still under the Quality tags...  Margaret is not really a quality bull hunt so they pulled it from that category I would assume...

[kglacken]

Well hopefully it discourages people from putting in for the margaret tags. If you know where to go its a quality tag in my opinion.

[bobcat]

Yup all the Bull hunts are still under the Quality tags...  Margaret is not really a quality bull hunt so they pulled it from that category I would assume...

But Toutle is still in Quality.   

Margaret should still be considered a quality hunt, since there is no general season in that unit. The bulls may not be considered to be "quality" bulls by some people, but the experience of the hunt with a large number of elk and few other hunters is more important than the size of the bulls to some people.

[Rainstorm Hunter]

The only bull hunts I put in for are margaret.  was gonna have 7 points this year.  back down to 5 for bull because I have not put in for it the past 2 year. 

[Bearhunter]

Your right Bobcat, I dont know why they wouldnt move the Toutle as well....  Also it is a quality hunt in the matter of pure quanity of animals, I just think the trophy potential is down compared to years ago.  Definetly be putting in for it thou!

[shanevg]

The only bull hunts I put in for are margaret.  was gonna have 7 points this year.  back down to 5 for bull because I have not put in for it the past 2 year. 

I hope your right for your own sake, but if I recall correctly, you lost your "bull elk" points you had accumulated prior to the split of elk applications if you didn't apply the first year they were available.  That's why I applied for "bull elk" and "buck deer" even though there weren't any units I was interested in drawing.  I might be wrong, but I won't be surprised if you don't have any points for "bull elk".

[grundy53]

I think it was a miss print. If they moved it I think it would be red. Like every other hunt that gets added to a category for the first time.

[Rainstorm Hunter]

I noticed a couple errors in the regs including youth elk permits being called youth deer.

[bobcat]

I think it was a miss print. If they moved it I think it would be red. Like every other hunt that gets added to a category for the first time.

I really don't think it's a mistake. How would they mistakenly move just the Margarent hunts from the Quality category to the Bull category? They were listed in the Quality category in the proposals.

There were other changes that weren't in red, such as the change that allows archery equipment during muzzleloader deer and elk seasons.

I think they just don't want to make it too obvious. I'd bet it's just a way for them to sell more applications. I'm sure a lot of people normally apply for Margaret as a #1 choice with Toutle as a #2. Now those same people can apply for Toutle on their Quality Elk application and also apply for Margaret on their Bull Elk application. And the state sells a whole lot more applications that people never would have bought if the Margaret hunts weren't listed in that category.

Now I wouldn't be too surprised if they do come out and say that it was a mistake, if they get enough complaints. I know I will be writing a letter to them about it tomorrow.

[throttlejocky20]

Its all about the money these days. I strongly believe money is more important to our game department the animals or hunters. Criminals!

[Antlershed]

The only bull hunts I put in for are margaret.  was gonna have 7 points this year.  back down to 5 for bull because I have not put in for it the past 2 year. 

I hope your right for your own sake, but if I recall correctly, you lost your "bull elk" points you had accumulated prior to the split of elk applications if you didn't apply the first year they were available.  That's why I applied for "bull elk" and "buck deer" even though there weren't any units I was interested in drawing.  I might be wrong, but I won't be surprised if you don't have any points for "bull elk".

That is not the case. I didn't apply for buck deer the first year after the split, but I applied for it last year and was only 1 point behind what I have in the quality category.

[lokidog]

The only bull hunts I put in for are margaret.  was gonna have 7 points this year.  back down to 5 for bull because I have not put in for it the past 2 year. 

Same boat but worse as I have no points for Bull just the Quality hunts.     Friggin stupid money grabbing system!!  This is the only hunt i usually even put in for.  It was going to be points only this year anyways though.

[bobcat]

The only bull hunts I put in for are margaret.  was gonna have 7 points this year.  back down to 5 for bull because I have not put in for it the past 2 year. 

Same boat but worse as I have no points for Bull just the Quality hunts.     Friggin stupid money grabbing system!!  This is the only hunt i usually even put in for.  It was going to be points only this year anyways though.

Just think of all the people who have something like 10 or 12 points, or more, in the bull category, because they got their points placed there in 2009 when they made up all these new categories. They could have even since then drew Margaret with their quality application, and now they get a second chance to use all their points in the bull category, which up till now they had no use for.

I try to support the DFW in a lot of things but this is wrong. They can't just do nonsensical stuff like this and expect people to just be happy and keep paying the money. You can't change the rules of a game right in the middle of that game. Like I said, I'll be sending out some letters tomorrow.

[elkslayer069]

hell works for me i drew the margaret last year as a quality and ill probably have another good chance at it this year since i have 8 points in the bull  other wise the only thing i can think of was the success rate for the unit was so low this year

[bobcat]

the only thing i can think of was the success rate for the unit was so low this year

Was it really that bad?

Maybe this is the first step to changing it over to a general season hunt.

[lokidog]

The only bull hunts I put in for are margaret.  was gonna have 7 points this year.  back down to 5 for bull because I have not put in for it the past 2 year. 

Same boat but worse as I have no points for Bull just the Quality hunts.     Friggin stupid money grabbing system!!  This is the only hunt i usually even put in for.  It was going to be points only this year anyways though.

Just think of all the people who have something like 10 or 12 points, or more, in the bull category, because they got their points placed there in 2009 when they made up all these new categories. They could have even since then drew Margaret with their quality application, and now they get a second chance to use all their points in the bull category, which up till now they had no use for.

I try to support the DFW in a lot of things but this is wrong. They can't just do nonsensical stuff like this and expect people to just be happy and keep paying the money. You can't change the rules of a game right in the middle of that game. Like I said, I'll be sending out some letters tomorrow.

Yes, it blows.  It wasn't fair to give points in all the categories to begin with, people should have had to pick one to transfer each species points to. 

[bloodhound]

all i know is im gonna have to think hard, i could go for the toutle this year, and put a ghost point in bull, since i have like 13-14 points in quality, and like 10-11 in bull. this way if i get drawn for toutle this year i can try to draw margret next year.

[SilkOnTheDrySide]

Wow...they doubled the price on tags for all Buck hunts...was I the only Schmuck who didn't realize this?

[bobcat]

all i know is im gonna have to think hard, i could go for the toutle this year, and put a ghost point in bull, since i have like 13-14 points in quality, and like 10-11 in bull. this way if i get drawn for toutle this year i can try to draw margret next year.

Yeah but you don't know what they'll do next year. They might put Margaret back in Quality and put Toutle in Bull.   

[lokidog]

The sad part is, this just gives another example of poor management on WDFW's part, having to downgrade a "Quality" hunting area....   

[Elkhound]

hell works for me i drew the margaret last year as a quality and ill probably have another good chance at it this year since i have 8 points in the bull  other wise the only thing i can think of was the success rate for the unit was so low this year

I am in the same boat! I drew archery bull last year and luckily kept buying ghost points in the bull category.......now will have 9 points to use on the bull tag if I choose.  I agree that the bulls in the Margaret may not be "trophy" but any hunt that provides you a hunt with few people and lots of elk is good for me!!!

[Curly]

I heard Dave Ware drew Margaret last year and he wanted to hunt it again one of these years so he had it switched to "Bull" instead of Quality so that he would have a chance to draw it again.

[elkslayer069]

the only thing i can think of was the success rate for the unit was so low this year

Was it really that bad?

Maybe this is the first step to changing it over to a general season hunt.

Well we both killed our bulls but everyone we talked to was pissed off and disappointed and some people hadnt seen an elk lol i dont know how they hadnt i personally passed on about 30 bulls being picky i ended up shooting a spike on the last day and could not have been happier with my hunt

heres a picture of our bulls

[trophyhunt]

With 17 points I'm thinking of ghost pointing the quality this year and putting in for that margaret rut hunt!!! Mostly in case they change it back after this year.

[soccerguy]

trophyhunt...I too have 17 points and am considering the same for the "bull elk" draw; however I drew a quality permit last fall so the duplicate draw issue isn't a problem.  I'm just curious why the downgrade of the hunt.  If it was just for the average size of the animals and not numbers, then it's still a "quality" hunt to me.

[trophyhunt]

trophyhunt...I too have 17 points and am considering the same for the "bull elk" draw; however I drew a quality permit last fall so the duplicate draw issue isn't a problem.  I'm just curious why the downgrade of the hunt.  If it was just for the average size of the animals and not numbers, then it's still a "quality" hunt to me.

Glad to see someone with ton's of points draw, that gives me hope. How'd you do on the quality hunt???

[Chesapeake]

the only thing i can think of was the success rate for the unit was so low this year

Was it really that bad?

Maybe this is the first step to changing it over to a general season hunt.

Well we both killed our bulls but everyone we talked to was pissed off and disappointed and some people hadnt seen an elk lol i dont know how they hadnt i personally passed on about 30 bulls being picky i ended up shooting a spike on the last day and could not have been happier with my hunt

heres a picture of our bulls

Yeah, but your report to the wdfw says you shot a spike. Likely others got nothing. There isnt a check box to say you passed bulls on the report form. What's it say about a quality hunt when the report cards say guys hunted several days and had to settle on a spike or eat a tag.
But .....I thought they were supposed to phase out Toutle.
Who knows what wdfw is thinking? I feel like they have lost touch with us sportsmen. But then often hear of these types of things being driven by lobby groups that are supposed to represent the hunters.
Mostly I just hate how wdfw leads us on with all the questionnaires full of BS polls on nonsense like robo ducks, lighted knocks, ect... but then never involving us on the real issues. They con us into believing we're involved, all the while pulling the wool over our eyes. Just like mushroom, keep um in the dark and feed them dung.

[bobcat]

I contacted the WDFW and got the "official" word on why it was taken out of quality. There were three main points given:

Access issues
Number of permits we have been providing
Hunt has gone downhill over the past couple of years

[Curly]

I contacted the WDFW and got the "official" word on why it was taken out of quality. There were three main points given:

Access issues
Number of permits we have been providing
Hunt has gone downhill over the past couple of years

He didn't tell you the real number #1 reason:  Dave Ware still has a bunch of points in the Bull category.....................
 

[shanevg]

I contacted the WDFW and got the "official" word on why it was taken out of quality. There were three main points given:

Access issues
Number of permits we have been providing
Hunt has gone downhill over the past couple of years

He didn't tell you the real number #1 reason:  Dave Ware still has a bunch of points in the Bull category.....................
 

 

[Backstrap]

Total BS. I wasted my Bull points by drawing a POS Olympic tag last year.

[BrushChimp]

Unsure if this has already been posted, but it seems to me by splitting up Toutle and Margaret they are again going to make more money. Many folks who could at one time just buy the Quality app. would just put in for Toutle and Margaret. Now they have to buy 2 apps. They keep making it harder and harder to draw "Quality" permits...

[SkookumHntr]

Unsure if this has already been posted, but it seems to me by splitting up Toutle and Margaret they are again going to make more money. Many folks who could at one time just buy the Quality app. would just put in for Toutle and Margaret. Now they have to buy 2 apps. They keep making it harder and harder to draw "Quality" permits...

Its making it harder to draw any elk permit! Dave Ware needs to be removed! Hes a joke!

[Alan K]

Glad I've been buying points for every category!  I hadn't necessarily been doing it in hopes that a hunt would be moved from one category to the another like this, but because I was hoping at some point another hunt would come out that I might be interested in.  Or, down the road when I have a kid I can use my points to put in as a group with him/her and average out my points with them for some decent draw odds at getting them a good chance at an animal.

[doyourtime89]

hell works for me i drew the margaret last year as a quality and ill probably have another good chance at it this year since i have 8 points in the bull  other wise the only thing i can think of was the success rate for the unit was so low this year

How was the hunt for you last year?  What did you end up getting?  How many where you seeing?  I hunt the east side but have alway put my son in for that tag.

[heavy hauler]

it should be a "quantity" elk hunt. you will see lots of bulls but few quality

[grundy53]

Glad I've been buying points for every category!  I hadn't necessarily been doing it in hopes that a hunt would be moved from one category to the another like this, but because I was hoping at some point another hunt would come out that I might be interested in.  Or, down the road when I have a kid I can use my points to put in as a group with him/her and average out my points with them for some decent draw odds at getting them a good chance at an animal.

I've been doing the same thing.  I've applied for points only in the bull section since it has come out just in case they add one i would like to hunt.

[throttlejocky20]

I was doing the same and drew a tag last year. I guess I should have put in for ghost points.

[DIYARCHERYJUNKIE]

I'm glad I got confused and bought my bull app last year 2 points in bull should give me a shot.      Id shoot first legal if I only spent two points.