State helps protect livestock from wolves

[WA hunter14]

humanure can you give me the reasons you want wolves here and how they are a good thing? just curious cause i havent found any yet?

Do i really have to reiterate why i feel so? I feel like I've said it many times already. Short answer: They shouldn't have been removed in the first place, as an integral species in this ecosystem.

is it that hard just list off some reasons i want to here both sides even from the very beginning, you sit there and argue with people for pages but when i ask you a simple question you wont answer. you gave one reason can you atleast give me a couple more. you say you have said it many times already but how am i supposed to know that i just read this thread and am asking you a simple question.

[humanure]

Laughable, at best.

The Canadian gray wolves WERE here, actually. They shared this region with the Cascades Mountain wolf, who is now extinct thanks to selfishness. So the Canadians were only 'driven back'. Now they have returned. Remember, there was never any borders in their minds, they never stayed only in Canada.

I still laugh that the ecosystem is thought of something to be 'maintained'. It's almost as funny as that guy in Alaska saying, "We can't just let the wilderness run wild!".

Ecoterrorist? Funny, REALLY funny.

[humanure]

humanure can you give me the reasons you want wolves here and how they are a good thing? just curious cause i havent found any yet?

Do i really have to reiterate why i feel so? I feel like I've said it many times already. Short answer: They shouldn't have been removed in the first place, as an integral species in this ecosystem.

is it that hard just list off some reasons i want to here both sides even from the very beginning, you sit there and argue with people for pages but when i ask you a simple question you wont answer. you gave one reason can you atleast give me a couple more. you say you have said it many times already but how am i supposed to know that i just read this thread and am asking you a simple question.

Fair 'nuff.

I have seen for myself the evidence of gross over-populated herds and the damage that they do. And no, I do not believe for one second that more lenient hunting seasons will ever fix the problem.

There's also the MASSIVE parasite loads that have become an issue with ungulates not having it's natural predators to keep them stronger an more immune to such things. Again as i mentioned, weak genes kept out of the pool allows for stronger genes to be bred together creating even strong offspring.

The EXTREMELY over-populated Coyote numbers, which wolves bring back down. Coyotes have their place in the ecosystem(though before wolf extinction, coyotes were pretty much only on the west side, mostly in Cali), but when there is too many coyotes, the small mammal/rodent numbers go down, and we lose our predatory birds.

[TWG2A]

Laughable, at best.

The Canadian gray wolves WERE here, actually. They shared this region with the Cascades Mountain wolf, who is now extinct thanks to selfishness. So the Canadians were only 'driven back'. Now they have returned. Remember, there was never any borders in their minds, they never stayed only in Canada.

I still laugh that the ecosystem is thought of something to be 'maintained'. It's almost as funny as that guy in Alaska saying, "We can't just let the wilderness run wild!".

Ecoterrorist? Funny, REALLY funny.

..And there it is, folks.  A liar.

[TWG2A]

Hey manure...

I suppose you believe the "ecosystem"as you see it would include "relocating" some grizzly's down to Florida?

After all.. a zillion years ago, bears pooped in Florida.

You're a tool.

[TWG2A]

humanure can you give me the reasons you want wolves here and how they are a good thing? just curious cause i havent found any yet?

Do i really have to reiterate why i feel so? I feel like I've said it many times already. Short answer: They shouldn't have been removed in the first place, as an integral species in this ecosystem.

is it that hard just list off some reasons i want to here both sides even from the very beginning, you sit there and argue with people for pages but when i ask you a simple question you wont answer. you gave one reason can you atleast give me a couple more. you say you have said it many times already but how am i supposed to know that i just read this thread and am asking you a simple question.

Fair 'nuff.

I have seen for myself the evidence of gross over-populated herds and the damage that they do. And no, I do not believe for one second that more lenient hunting seasons will ever fix the problem.

There's also the MASSIVE parasite loads that have become an issue with ungulates not having it's natural predators to keep them stronger an more immune to such things. Again as i mentioned, weak genes kept out of the pool allows for stronger genes to be bred together creating even strong offspring.

The EXTREMELY over-populated Coyote numbers, which wolves bring back down. Coyotes have their place in the ecosystem(though before wolf extinction, coyotes were pretty much only on the west side, mostly in Cali), but when there is too many coyotes, the small mammal/rodent numbers go down, and we lose our predatory birds.

Psyops from an amatuer.

Don't be fooled.

[humanure]

Go read the ecology books. The Canadian wolves(Canadian only by human borders) roamed deep into Washington, ID, MT, etc. It's not an uncommon fact. To think otherwise is just... retarded. Wolves ranges are extremely vast, why would they suddenly stop at an invisible line on the map?

[humanure]

humanure can you give me the reasons you want wolves here and how they are a good thing? just curious cause i havent found any yet?

Do i really have to reiterate why i feel so? I feel like I've said it many times already. Short answer: They shouldn't have been removed in the first place, as an integral species in this ecosystem.

is it that hard just list off some reasons i want to here both sides even from the very beginning, you sit there and argue with people for pages but when i ask you a simple question you wont answer. you gave one reason can you atleast give me a couple more. you say you have said it many times already but how am i supposed to know that i just read this thread and am asking you a simple question.

Fair 'nuff.

I have seen for myself the evidence of gross over-populated herds and the damage that they do. And no, I do not believe for one second that more lenient hunting seasons will ever fix the problem.

There's also the MASSIVE parasite loads that have become an issue with ungulates not having it's natural predators to keep them stronger an more immune to such things. Again as i mentioned, weak genes kept out of the pool allows for stronger genes to be bred together creating even strong offspring.

The EXTREMELY over-populated Coyote numbers, which wolves bring back down. Coyotes have their place in the ecosystem(though before wolf extinction, coyotes were pretty much only on the west side, mostly in Cali), but when there is too many coyotes, the small mammal/rodent numbers go down, and we lose our predatory birds.

Psyops from an amatuer.

Don't be fooled.

I can say the same about you, but i don't presume to do so.

[TWG2A]

Go read the ecology books. The Canadian wolves(Canadian only by human borders) roamed deep into Washington, ID, MT, etc. It's not an uncommon fact. To think otherwise is just... retarded. Wolves ranges are extremely vast, why would they suddenly stop at an invisible line on the map?

Manure,

I don't read "books" written by imperialistic idiots.  I live it, and I know it in my soul. That is why I an right and you are wrong.

"retarded"?  Look in the mirror. You need to call one of you sleazy lawyer friends an d file charges for making you so *smarty*.

In the meantime..... Let's move some grizzleys down to Miami beach.

While we're at it... let's examine how Ohians reacted when all those wolves, tigers and bears got loose last year... look it up.  How do you think those ecoterrorrists would respond if we let loose some of these canadian greys on their butts?

[humanure]

Go read the ecology books. The Canadian wolves(Canadian only by human borders) roamed deep into Washington, ID, MT, etc. It's not an uncommon fact. To think otherwise is just... retarded. Wolves ranges are extremely vast, why would they suddenly stop at an invisible line on the map?

Manure,

I don't read "books" written by imperialistic idiots.  I live it, and I know it in my soul. That is why I an right and you are wrong.

Yeah, like THAT holds any water. If you know more than anyone else, why don't YOU write the books then? But you won't. The difference is, I don't presume that I'm 'right'. No one is right.

In the meantime..... Let's move some grizzleys down to Miami beach.

Considering the type of people who live there... not a bad idea. hahahahahahahahahaha!

[TWG2A]

Manure.....

Rub the glass off your beady little eyes for a moment and chew the coffee.

You are no match for someone who knows this fight.  You will NEVER get the last word with me, and you will NEVER win. 

Facts are stubborn things.  Those who read this, and who really DO care enough, will do their own homework.

Your lies are useless here. Go back to craigslist.

[humanure]

Glass off my eye's? What the hell does that mean, anyway? I'm sure it's some yokel sideways derogative, though.

I don't drink coffee. Or tea. Don't like the *censored*.

And what do you mean by craigslist? Unless you are that person who i alerted to the F&W and got their poaching site shut down for posting ad's on craigslist wanting to know where people were seeing wolves. If whoever you are is on this site, nice try but I and the fed's saw through your bullmess for the vague poaching site that you tried to slip by.

But you cannot dispute the fact the wolves from over the border were native to here. Science and records will always prove otherwise.

[fair-chase]

I have seen for myself the evidence of gross over-populated herds and the damage that they do. And no, I do not believe for one second that more lenient hunting seasons will ever fix the problem.

Where have you seen gross overpopulation of herds? Here in Washington? Unlikely. You must be referring to that ridiculous Yellowstone study that I strongly feel was a political speech and not a true scientific study. Were you actually there or did you just read the propaganda and regurgitate it as your own experience. I digress...

Are you seriously going to tell me that hunters would not have solved the ever so slight overpopulation of elk in Yellowstone. I would venture to say that not only would they have solved it in a single year, but that they would have lined the parks coffers with money doing so. Every elk hunter in the lower 48 would have coveted a tag for Yellowstone.

Now, instead of the park making money by the boat load for a special permit elk hunt, they (along with thousands of others in the west) are loosing millions do to this introduction.

There's also the MASSIVE parasite loads that have become an issue with ungulates not having it's natural predators to keep them stronger an more immune to such things. Again as i mentioned, weak genes kept out of the pool allows for stronger genes to be bred together creating even strong offspring.

So ungulates that are starved and run into the ground by constant and excessive predation pressure are less likely to be hosts for parasites?

It is also a myth that wolves only target the sick and weak. Wolves target anything they want. Possibly you don't understand what "Apex Predator" means. Wolves don't need to be selective in their slaughter harvest, a healthy wolf pack is quite capable of taking any game animal in the lower 48.

The EXTREMELY over-populated Coyote numbers, which wolves bring back down. Coyotes have their place in the ecosystem(though before wolf extinction, coyotes were pretty much only on the west side, mostly in Cali), but when there is too many coyotes, the small mammal/rodent numbers go down, and we lose our predatory birds.

Not sure where your getting your facts about historical ranges of coyotes, but I will concede that excessive coyote numbers do constitute a reduction in small mammal and rodent numbers and reducing coyotes will increase rodents/mammals. Given that other predators (wolves, badgers, cougars, bobcats, etc) are kept in check and do not fill the void. There, we agree ever so slightly on something. I think I'm going to be sick. 

[TWG2A]

Manure = Typical B.S.  YAWN

Not that I typically answer questions posted by you glassy eyed idiots, but as to my craigslist comment.. go back to your circle jerk over there.

I have no idea to what you're referring about that particular circle jerk, but it's common knowledge amongst us Patriots that you glassy eyed idiots gather there. It's like a huge roach nest for things like you.

You continue to refer to knowledgable people as "poachers".

I suggest you refrain from that. Poaching is against the law in this country.

Go back to your craigslist circle jerk

[humanure]

Where have you seen gross overpopulation of herds? Here in Washington? Unlikely. You must be referring to that ridiculous Yellowstone study that I strongly feel was a political speech and not a true scientific study. Were you actually there or did you just read the propaganda and regurgitate it as your own experience. I digress...

Are you seriously going to tell me that hunters would not have solved the ever so slight overpopulation of elk in Yellowstone. I would venture to say that not only would they have solved it in a single year, but that they would have lined the parks coffers with money doing so. Every elk hunter in the lower 48 would have coveted a tag for Yellowstone.

Now, instead of the park making money by the boat load for a special permit elk hunt, they (along with thousands of others in the west) are loosing millions do to this introduction.

Yes, here on the wet side where I've lived in the mountains my whole life. Among the lushness, you can see damage being done. The lack of saplings taking hold due to lawnmowers slow moving herds. Weyerhaueser has been rumored to have been fed up about this, because their money is being compromised with trouble growing the next generation of tree's.

There's also the MASSIVE parasite loads that have become an issue with ungulates not having it's natural predators to keep them stronger an more immune to such things. Again as i mentioned, weak genes kept out of the pool allows for stronger genes to be bred together creating even strong offspring.

So ungulates that are starved and run into the ground by constant and excessive predation pressure are less likely to be hosts for parasites?

YES, as a matter of fact. And they don't starve, they eat on the run. But when the weak are taken out, they are unable to pass their genes back into the herd. When the weak genes are kept out, the stronger genes survive and eventually, you have an extremely healthy animal with great immune systems. Simply biology course, even in high school, teaches you this. It is NOT NATURAL for ungulates to be slow moving and eat until there is no foliage left before moving on.

It is also a myth that wolves only target the sick and weak. Wolves target anything they want. Possibly you don't understand what "Apex Predator" means. Wolves don't need to be selective in their slaughter harvest, a healthy wolf pack is quite capable of taking any game animal in the lower 48.

Yes, i know it isn't a complete truth that they only take the weak and sick. The majority of autopsies on the field have shown the ungulates too have ailments or been very old. Not always, but on average. Wolves can target all they want, but that doesn't mean they will be successful in bringing it down.

Not sure where your getting your facts about historical ranges of coyotes, but I will concede that excessive coyote numbers do constitute a reduction in small mammal and rodent numbers and reducing coyotes will increase rodents/mammals. Given that other predators (wolves, badgers, cougars, bobcats, etc) are kept in check and do not fill the void. There, we agree ever so slightly on something. I think I'm going to be sick. 

It is not unknown that records from the past has shown that coyotes really weren't all that present outside of the west, mostly due to wolves not having a huge presence in southern California(guess they don't like the LA attitude, but who does?). The Dire Wolf was there eon's ago, but died off for an unknown reason. Might have something to do with the wolves we saw after them weren't there as well.