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Author Topic: Proposed wording change for trap checking?  (Read 1733 times)

Offline BigCutty3

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Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« on: March 26, 2019, 06:43:21 PM »
I will preface by saying Im not a trapper, and don't pretend to know the laws...but I was going through the Commission Agenda items for April and they are changing the wording for trap checking....I would assume this is really going to change the game, having to check live traps every 24 hours? The change as proposed is below:
(c) Unless ((animals captured in)) restraining traps (any nonkilling set) are ((removed within)) checked every twenty-four hours and captured animals are restrained in a trap for no more than twentyfour hours ((of capture)).
Some of the strikethroughs didnt copy/paste but you can look it up if interested.  They are essentially adding the "checked every twenty four hours" part to the "and captured animals are restrained in a trap for no more than twenty four hours".

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2019, 07:03:32 PM »
Thank you.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2019, 07:40:26 PM »
So how do the trappers feel about this and why was it changed.

Offline BigCutty3

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2019, 08:01:01 PM »
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/about/commission/meetings/2019/04/apr04_06_summary.pdf

Top of page 7

Its still proposed, sounds like they are going to vote on it during the April 5th meeting?  But bet you it goes through if no vocal opposition

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2019, 08:14:48 PM »
I'm new this year to trapping so bare with me but i think its the same wording is it not.
"Boss of the woods"
(this is in reference to the biggie not me).

Offline BigCutty3

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2019, 08:17:33 PM »
I read it a bit more...sounds like WDFW staff is recommending moving forward with the change, saying it will "foster humane treatment and welfare of trapped furbearers and by catch animals"......last paragraph.

Summary of Public Comments Received During the Official Comment Period  WAC 220-417-030 Wild animal trapping.
 Supporting Comments: There were two (2) comments received in support of the proposed changes. One commenter suggested that traps should be checked every 12 hours instead of every 24 hours. 
 Opposing, Neutral, and Other Comments: There were four (4) comments received in opposition to the proposed changes. The common theme in the opposing comments was requesting a longer time period for checking restraining traps (live capture). The four opposing comments were as follows: One (1) suggested no change, One (1) suggested not to make things harder for users and allow more opportunities, Two (2) suggested longer trap check intervals (36 hours and 48 hours).
 Direction and Rationale: The department will move forward with the proposed changes to the Fish and Wildlife Commission. The 24 hour check of restraining traps was implied in the existing rule. The proposal is not changing the window of time that live capture traps must be checked but rather clarifying that it occurs every 24 hours. The proposed changes will foster humane treatment and welfare of trapped furbearers and by-catch animals (WAC 220-417-030).

Offline Fishhunt223

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2019, 08:56:42 PM »
The current wording of the law does not specify a check time, it only states that an animal must not be restrained for longer than 24 hours.

How are “trap checks” being defined? If traps are checked from a distance with binoculars from a vehicle, is this acceptable?

I would also be curious how they would interpret the law in regard to electronic monitoring of traps. Many trappers are using wireless cameras or other electronic devices to monitor traps continuously, and may or may not have eyes on their traps every single day. Does a device like this fall under the definition of a trap check?

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2019, 09:03:16 PM »
cant be restrained for more than 24 hours is in fact a check time.I'm not seeing any real change at all.  :dunno: what am i missing?Like i said i'm new.Humptulips told us in class that the wording was intentional to favor the trapper,If it is a real change in wording then i will assume it is to try and trap a trapper into mistakes.
"Boss of the woods"
(this is in reference to the biggie not me).

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2019, 09:05:41 PM »
This is the first I have heard about it and that in its self is a problem. More on that later.
The problem with the wording is it looks like we would be required to visit a trap every 24 hours. Other states have that language and it creates a hardship on trappers because to be legal you have to visit traps earlier every day. One may argue that it only requires once a day but the wording could be interpreted differently and in my experience DFW will interpret it in the most restrictive way.
Also there is no language that might take into account unforeseen circumstances such as a break down or even dangerous weather conditions. trappers might be the only user group required to risk their life to comply with the law.
The wording of the law now is ambiguous enough so that a trapper can stay in compliance while checking a trap at different times of the day.

Beyond that is the Departments unwillingness to work with user groups. They know my number and my e-mail and use it when they want something from me but when changing a law that effects trapping they have made no outreach to the Trappers Association plus they spring this right during trapping season. They know darn well trappers are trapping this time of year. It looks like an effort to hide this from us until it is too late to do anything about it. Plus, when ever I bring something up regarding trapping they tell me no changes can be made until the three year package comes up for renewal. This on the other hand has to happen now?
Why is DFW so unwilling to work with user groups?
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2019, 09:09:41 PM »
After reading  :yeah: i see the difference now.It will be a way to make things harder on the trapping group.
"Boss of the woods"
(this is in reference to the biggie not me).

Offline Fishhunt223

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2019, 09:30:52 PM »
Thanks for everything you do Bruce. This affects all of us. Please let us know if there is any way we can help.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2019, 09:34:36 PM »
So if I get time stamped checking a trap at exactly 12:00 noon,  tomorrow I would have to check that trap before noon to make sure I comply, the new time stamp is 11:55am, then 11:50

but the 4th day I have to check a tad early because of a doctor appointment later on, so I'm out by 9:00 am.  Then 8:50 then 8:30 then then then next thing you know I gotta be checking traps in the wee hours of the morning.

Now I have to close the doors on the traps and pull bait to reset the clock, or I gotta maintain that earlier and earlier check times.


who knew trappers were so punctual? 

In reality there's going to be hangups and problems, and you might be a few minutes to hours late checking a trap and bingo bango you're time stamped going beyond your 24h check time.

It just adds more hassle and frustration to (legal) trapping  :bash:

Offline UrbanTrapper

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2019, 10:03:11 PM »
You are correct KFHunter and that is one of the reasons the current law is worded as it is.

 This is clearly just meant to harass trappers, increase their 'marginal propensity to quit trapping, make it easier for WDFW officers to ticket trappers and open trappers up to additional prosecution. It's a real shame but it often really seems that WDFW has been captured/cowed by, and is taking its marching orders from the anti's. How hard would it be for WDFW to come up with something new that showed they actually SUPPORTED trappers and hunters, their paying customers, by making things a little EASIER for us?   

  If a cage trap is empty and the trapper doesn't manage to check in 24 hours, there was nothing inhumane done AT ALL but the trapper can still get ticketed.  Current law makes it illegal to LEAVE an animal in a cage trap trap for longer than 24 hours and that, if the intent is REALLY to be humane to animals, is how the law should stay.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 10:55:42 PM by UrbanTrapper »

Offline lewy

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2019, 05:54:31 AM »
What a crock is $hit! Heck a lot of the critters in my cages are sleeping when I show up!
Go hawks

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2019, 01:09:05 PM »
They will hang a trail cam up at your trap and when the camera shows a time stamp of 24 hours and 1 minute between your checks they will mail you a ticket.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline wags

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2019, 09:05:29 PM »
It's really too bad trappers (both fur and NCO) can't stick together for a year or two and just refuse to trap anything.
They'd be begging us to take care of their problem animals; it would be fun to just sit back and laugh at the clowns in Olympia.

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2019, 12:23:36 PM »
I am surprised with the amount of liberals in Olympia and Seattle that they haven't completely outlawed trapping of all species much like they did with the hounds. Get ready because you know it is coming.

Offline Jake Dogfish

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2019, 08:02:24 AM »
They are voting on this change at 10:50am today.
When the staff presented this to the commission at a previous meeting they did not explain the concerns voiced in this thread.  I think it’s highly likely this will pass.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2019, 11:21:35 AM »
I sent a long letter to the Director last week about this and then had a long conversation about it with Eric Gardner and Anis Aoude. They agreed to withdraw this from consideration. Yesterday I was at the Commission meeting and they did indeed withdraw it but it will likely come up again in a year. I testified as to why we don't like the language anyway and answered a few questions from Commissioners. Just guessing but from the tone of there questions we are not going to get by with the status quo. Nobody except trappers seems to like the current wording.
Before the meeting and during breaks I spoke with the Director, Chief Bear, Eric and Anis about it. I think we can get wording that says you must check every day rather than this 24 hour time. Chief Bear suggested a 36 hour check time so they are willing to give a little. Anyway it is put off for a year and I should be in on any changes at the onset. I think I stirred things up a bit with my letter.
Also they are caving on the KORO rat trap issue and it looks like we will be able to use them next year.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2019, 11:49:37 AM »
I'm wondering why the change? Is this just to appease the trapper hating anti hunters?
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2019, 12:27:52 PM »
I had thought it might revolve around an out of State trapper that the Department wanted to cite but could not because he never caught anything in the traps Enforcement was watching. That is a guess though and when a Commissioner asked if there were problems that precipitated this there was no answer.
Another possibility this might stem from wording on trap checks endorsed by the Association of F&W Agencies.
The wording they had proposed is common in other states and it is a problem for trappers in those States. I think we can do better.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2019, 12:29:35 PM »
It's pretty darn obvious none of them are trappers!  :bash:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
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Offline Uncle Juju

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2019, 10:06:31 AM »
Thank you guy for your watchful eyes and effort towards keeping the tradition alive.

It is clear that they have no clue what it takes to be a trapper! It's nothing like deer or elk hunting...

Offline predatorpro

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2019, 09:46:55 PM »
The wdfw never ceases to amaze me with their absolute stupidity and their passion to be completely worthless...can we just sue them for harassment? I’ll just make sure to start saving some money right now for my ticket next season! Can we organize a march and demand to stop being attacked by the wdfw and their anti hunting buddies?

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2019, 10:59:59 PM »
Is it just a ticket?  :dunno:

I thought (i might be wrong)That not reporting and not checking according to the wording that it was criminal.I'm new to trapping so....


RCW 77.15.194 section (4) penalty section (6)
"Boss of the woods"
(this is in reference to the biggie not me).

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2019, 10:02:11 AM »
Failure to report is an infraction
Failure to check traps is a misdemeanor.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2019, 12:08:16 PM »
 :tup:
"Boss of the woods"
(this is in reference to the biggie not me).

Offline Cougartail

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2019, 12:02:43 PM »
They can time stamp all they want. All my sets are viewable from the roads. Proving I didn't check would be tough. Proving I didn't remove an animal in 24 hours is easy.

Offline JimmieD

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Re: Proposed wording change for trap checking?
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2019, 03:34:38 PM »
Late to the party, but thanks for the update and at least there is another year before this comes up again......also, great news on that they may cave on the KORO's....that would be fantastic!
"For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?" ~Mark 8:36 (NASB)

 


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