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Author Topic: Taking away quality permits or general season  (Read 5695 times)

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2019, 10:29:31 AM »
Here's a great read on what our hunting and fishing licenses actually fund.

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/how-much-of-your-washington-fishing-hunting-license-dollars-actually-goes-to-wdfw/


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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2019, 10:31:51 AM »
Nobody is limiting deer hunting. Nobody is wanting reduced or permit Whitetail or blacktail. Itís mule deer that is the problem. Majority of population of people in this state lives either around blacktails or Whitetails. The mule deer herds need managing! Itís unbelievable that this state is a free for all modern firearm , muzzy and archery. We have the least amount of habitat for mule deer of any western state and highest people population of any western state excluding CA. These units need managing not saying it should be giving out 50 permits and making them quality , but managing hunter numbers and getting accurate harvest numbers . Some of the these units could be done like ID where itís unlimited permit . You have to apply there and thatís the only unit you get to hunt. If you could save 25 bucks in a given unit ever year over a few years the unit would start to look better .
Completely agree.

There are areas in the state where mule deer buck escapement is a joke.  I see no reason we could not take at least several areas where hunter harvest is severely limiting escapement and make those permit only buck hunts to stop the slaughter of every muley buck with a 1 inch 3rd point.  WT and BT can stay general season OTC, and units where mule deer bucks are not being limited by hunter harvest...leave it the way it is.  But in many GMU's go permit only for mule deer...it would increase the mule deer hunting experience, not take away from general OTC WT/BT seasons, and it would help spread out hunts/points issues. :twocents:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2019, 10:42:26 AM »
When have we seen WDFW manage wildlife with a scalpel, rather than an axe?


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Offline Lapua07

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2019, 10:53:09 AM »
Thereís a million and one ways to skin this cat. Iím not overly familiar to hunting in most of this state. Having only been hunting away from the NE corner a hand full of times. That being said our deer numbers whitetail and muleys alike have gone to hell in a hand basket. Iíve literally seen more elk than deer this year.. not something to complain about I know. The moose numbers have dropped tremendously as well. I believe Washington has made a pretty good leap in the right direction with the extra days and tags offered for bear hunting. Predator control is a must. Bounty on coyotes will bring revenue even if itís a minimal amount paid back to the public. When we have lions in town regularly over the last several years that should be enough of an eye opener to the problem weíve created for the lack of management. The wolf topic I wonít even attempt to address in this post due to the amount of controversy it brings up between outdoorsmen themselves and political hypocrisy that started the *censored* in the first place. Iíd purpose deer tags are put to at the bare minimum no draw for quality hunts for 5-10 years. Tags are to be sold like wise as elk (east/west). No multi season. No doe permits. Mule deer closed completely in the tri-county area for a minimum 10 years. Once if ever the herd recovers.. drawing only and 4 point minimum. Baiting and dogs brought back for bears and cats. Even if they are permit only. But that just covers an opinion on whatís going on here in the corner.

Offline TriggerMike

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2019, 11:19:51 AM »
Another thought I had on this. If we reduce the amount of deer hunters in the field in a given year or couple year time frame we'll also be reducing the amount of cougars,bears and coyotes taken. The vast majority of predators in this state are killed opportunistically by hunters that randomly come across them while hunting deer and elk. Food for thought.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM »
When have we seen WDFW manage wildlife with a scalpel, rather than an axe?
Special permit hunts...where they micro manage permit numbers and categories to an extreme.

But I understand your overall point...WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2019, 11:36:52 AM »
Another thought I had on this. If we reduce the amount of deer hunters in the field in a given year or couple year time frame we'll also be reducing the amount of cougars,bears and coyotes taken. The vast majority of predators in this state are killed opportunistically by hunters that randomly come across them while hunting deer and elk. Food for thought.
Great point that I hadn't thought of.
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Offline jmscon

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2019, 12:19:50 PM »
Here's a great read on what our hunting and fishing licenses actually fund.

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/how-much-of-your-washington-fishing-hunting-license-dollars-actually-goes-to-wdfw/

Interesting, the numbers are pretty amazing.

One thing that sticks out, pertaining to this conversation, is this:
Quote
Of note, the formula for sharing PR and DJ funds between the states is based in part on how many fishing and hunting licenses that WDFW and other agencies sell,
Thatís a big chunk of the federal money that the state receives. $3 of fed money for every one matched.
My interpretation of the rules are open to interpretation.
Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM »
Thereís a million and one ways to skin this cat. Iím not overly familiar to hunting in most of this state. Having only been hunting away from the NE corner a hand full of times. That being said our deer numbers whitetail and muleys alike have gone to hell in a hand basket. Iíve literally seen more elk than deer this year.. not something to complain about I know. The moose numbers have dropped tremendously as well. I believe Washington has made a pretty good leap in the right direction with the extra days and tags offered for bear hunting. Predator control is a must. Bounty on coyotes will bring revenue even if itís a minimal amount paid back to the public. When we have lions in town regularly over the last several years that should be enough of an eye opener to the problem weíve created for the lack of management. The wolf topic I wonít even attempt to address in this post due to the amount of controversy it brings up between outdoorsmen themselves and political hypocrisy that started the *censored* in the first place. Iíd purpose deer tags are put to at the bare minimum no draw for quality hunts for 5-10 years. Tags are to be sold like wise as elk (east/west). No multi season. No doe permits. Mule deer closed completely in the tri-county area for a minimum 10 years. Once if ever the herd recovers.. drawing only and 4 point minimum. Baiting and dogs brought back for bears and cats. Even if they are permit only. But that just covers an opinion on whatís going on here in the corner.

I'd be right in line asking for reductions to deer/elk harvests *IF* predators were addressed in a meaningful way, but without that any deer/elk WE don't take is food for predators, poachers and tribes.   


<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice. 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:38:23 PM by KFhunter »
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Offline Tbar

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2019, 12:43:47 PM »
Thereís a million and one ways to skin this cat. Iím not overly familiar to hunting in most of this state. Having only been hunting away from the NE corner a hand full of times. That being said our deer numbers whitetail and muleys alike have gone to hell in a hand basket. Iíve literally seen more elk than deer this year.. not something to complain about I know. The moose numbers have dropped tremendously as well. I believe Washington has made a pretty good leap in the right direction with the extra days and tags offered for bear hunting. Predator control is a must. Bounty on coyotes will bring revenue even if itís a minimal amount paid back to the public. When we have lions in town regularly over the last several years that should be enough of an eye opener to the problem weíve created for the lack of management. The wolf topic I wonít even attempt to address in this post due to the amount of controversy it brings up between outdoorsmen themselves and political hypocrisy that started the *censored* in the first place. Iíd purpose deer tags are put to at the bare minimum no draw for quality hunts for 5-10 years. Tags are to be sold like wise as elk (east/west). No multi season. No doe permits. Mule deer closed completely in the tri-county area for a minimum 10 years. Once if ever the herd recovers.. drawing only and 4 point minimum. Baiting and dogs brought back for bears and cats. Even if they are permit only. But that just covers an opinion on whatís going on here in the corner.

I'd be right in line asking for reductions to deer/elk harvests *IF* predators were addressed in a meaningful way, but without that any deer/elk WE don't take is food for predators, poachers and tribes.   


<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.
I realize you know EVERYTHING that tribes do and where and how we manage but riddle me this.  Why are the only two elk herds growing in this state the ones with the most tribal involvement? Never mind, go ahead with your smart ass comments and divisive rhetoric.....

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2019, 12:45:47 PM »
You need to take your victim glasses off, and read what I wrote.

FYI:  the two largest elk herds in WA are the Yakima and MT Saint Helens herds, both those herds are subject to tribal and non-tribal harvest and both herds suffering declines in overall numbers.

I'm happy your tribe is doing a great job managing your small herd of elk and experiencing growth, would that all tribes do as much as yours.  Why aren't you calling in the Yakima's to grow their herd and work with WDFW?

« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:54:25 PM by KFhunter »
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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2019, 12:53:31 PM »
I don't believe we could go to permit only mule deer hunting and not do the same for blacktails and whitetails. All the hunting pressure would just be transferred from mule deer to the other two. Although in many blacktail areas, hunting pressure is controlled by Weyerhaeuser and other timber companies, so you wouldn't need to limit the number of tags issued for those areas.


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See this play out often with fishing. Wdfw closes one group of rivers then everyone moves to the next and fishes it into a closure.

Offline Tbar

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2019, 01:07:19 PM »
You need to take your victim glasses off, and read what I wrote.

FYI:  the two largest elk herds in WA are the Yakima and MT Saint Helens herds, both those herds are subject to tribal and non-tribal harvest and both herds suffering declines in overall numbers.

I'm happy your tribe is doing a great job managing your small herd of elk and experiencing growth, would that all tribes do as much as yours.  Why aren't you calling in the Yakima's to grow their herd and work with WDFW?
Thanks for the population info, really puts things in perspective to how meaningless my work is.  Victim glasses? KMA, I need to take a break from your site.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2019, 01:23:23 PM »
 
<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.
Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation.  The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old.  Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful.  If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything.  But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2019, 01:25:02 PM »
You need to take your victim glasses off, and read what I wrote.

FYI:  the two largest elk herds in WA are the Yakima and MT Saint Helens herds, both those herds are subject to tribal and non-tribal harvest and both herds suffering declines in overall numbers.

I'm happy your tribe is doing a great job managing your small herd of elk and experiencing growth, would that all tribes do as much as yours.  Why aren't you calling in the Yakima's to grow their herd and work with WDFW?

Thanks for the population info, really puts things in perspective to how meaningless my work is.  Victim glasses? KMA, I need to take a break from your site.

I've read your ever increasing resentment on this forum for a while now and you're far too ready to eviscerate anyone who dare talk about tribal issues, far too ready to throw out the racist card to anyone dare question a tribe, any tribe. 

Perhaps you do need a break and I'd be happy to provide that for you if needed.  I'll not ban you for your "KMA" comment and instead hope you'd think about it some.   

We're in this together like it or not, most of WA's herds of mule deer/elk are a shared resource.   
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 02:45:41 PM by KFhunter »
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