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Author Topic: Deer Antler Point Regs  (Read 3466 times)

Offline bowhunterforever

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2020, 02:23:51 PM »
4 point or better was working fantastic in 121. hope they bring it back. Also no doe killing for a few years atleast
You sure you know how to skin griz pilgram

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2020, 02:26:29 PM »
4 point or better was working fantastic in 121. hope they bring it back. Also no doe killing unless / until we get our predators under control

Ftfy

Offline bowhunterforever

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2020, 03:13:46 PM »
4 point or better was working fantastic in 121. hope they bring it back. Also no doe killing unless / until we get our predators under control

Ftfy I like that idea bango :tup:
You sure you know how to skin griz pilgram

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2020, 01:02:37 PM »
I hunted mule deer in Eastern Washington in the 1980's and early 90's before point restrictions.

There were some point restricted units back then, just a FYI. ;)
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline dvolmer

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2020, 03:22:18 PM »
I hunted mule deer in Eastern Washington in the 1980's and early 90's before point restrictions.

There were some point restricted units back then, just a FYI. ;)

Not true anywhere in South Eastern Washington.  In my post I explained the exact areas I was talking about (Washtucna, Hooper, Prescott, Waitsburg, and Dayton areas) and there were no deer point restrictions until the early-mid 90's. Prescott, Waitsburg, and Dayton areas started point restrictions a few years before the Washtucna and Hooper areas but it was in the early 90's that it all started.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 03:46:09 PM by dvolmer »
Zonk Volmer

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2020, 03:48:35 PM »
I hunted mule deer in Eastern Washington in the 1980's and early 90's before point restrictions.

There were some point restricted units back then, just a FYI. ;)

Not true anywhere in South Eastern Washington.  In my post I explained the exact areas I was talking about (Washtucna, Hooper, Prescott, Waitsburg, and Dayton areas) and there were no deer point restrictions until the early-mid 90's. Prescott, Waitsburg, and Dayton areas started point restrictions a few years before the Washtucna and Hooper areas but it was in the early 90's that it all started.

 Got it, didn’t see the “south” in there.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline nwwanderer

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2020, 05:30:34 PM »
Here is a couple pictures to demonstrate why the 4 point is a long term problem.  From teeth, antler make-up and atlas joint condition this is a first antler buck, decent little four point.  He had great potential to be something very special at maturity.  With most taken deer being young and this one legal his first antlers his genetics died with him.  The spike that was not taken because of the rule may have potential because of environmental conditions but it also likely that that little illegal buck does not have the genes to ever be what any of us would call mature.  Surely, anything that limits buck kill improves ratios but if your goal is to have mature four+ point bucks, killing them before any reproductive success decreases mature bucks with this antler style.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2020, 07:05:55 PM »
Here is a couple pictures to demonstrate why the 4 point is a long term problem.  From teeth, antler make-up and atlas joint condition this is a first antler buck, decent little four point.  He had great potential to be something very special at maturity.  With most taken deer being young and this one legal his first antlers his genetics died with him.  The spike that was not taken because of the rule may have potential because of environmental conditions but it also likely that that little illegal buck does not have the genes to ever be what any of us would call mature.  Surely, anything that limits buck kill improves ratios but if your goal is to have mature four+ point bucks, killing them before any reproductive success decreases mature bucks with this antler style.

Their antlers at a young age dont determine their antlers at maturity, especially when many bucks are born late.  Thats established.  Besides, its not about antler / trophy potential anyway.  Aprs are about protecting the youngest, most vulnerable bucks to increase percentage of bucks in the herd, and the age class of bucks, resulting in a more healthy naturally functioning deer herd, a more intense rut, higher buck winter survival, and s higher fawn survival from a saturation effect of a more condensed fawn birth time.

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2020, 08:16:32 PM »
Here is a couple pictures to demonstrate why the 4 point is a long term problem.  From teeth, antler make-up and atlas joint condition this is a first antler buck, decent little four point.  He had great potential to be something very special at maturity.  With most taken deer being young and this one legal his first antlers his genetics died with him.  The spike that was not taken because of the rule may have potential because of environmental conditions but it also likely that that little illegal buck does not have the genes to ever be what any of us would call mature.  Surely, anything that limits buck kill improves ratios but if your goal is to have mature four+ point bucks, killing them before any reproductive success decreases mature bucks with this antler style.

Hog wash.......he most likely would have been one of the average 130" bucks common in all of the whitetails range.

Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2020, 08:46:11 PM »
Here is a couple pictures to demonstrate why the 4 point is a long term problem.  From teeth, antler make-up and atlas joint condition this is a first antler buck, decent little four point.  He had great potential to be something very special at maturity.  With most taken deer being young and this one legal his first antlers his genetics died with him.  The spike that was not taken because of the rule may have potential because of environmental conditions but it also likely that that little illegal buck does not have the genes to ever be what any of us would call mature.  Surely, anything that limits buck kill improves ratios but if your goal is to have mature four+ point bucks, killing them before any reproductive success decreases mature bucks with this antler style.

This is misinformation. See the following links.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/whitetail-antlers-and-genetics-fact-or-fiction

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://extension.msstate.edu/sites/default/files/publications/publications/p3013.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjC1O2ki7fnAhWdCTQIHb09DIoQFjAAegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw1-BCQzYS0AObI54RmVoIVE

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2020, 08:59:22 PM »
Ive come to the realization that no matter how many logical arguments you make, no matter how many scientific studies you source, a number of people here will continue to beat the "young 4x = good genetics, spike = bad genetics" drum. no amount of science debunking that will get through to these folks.  They want to believe it, because theyre anti apr, because they just want to kill something to feel successful.  They dont care whats best for the health of the herd, they care about going back to work and bragging about filling their deer tag every year.  Theyll ignore any data based study out there to stick with their false beliefs that go against aprs.  They want to see antlers and shoot, period, even if its a 90lb "buck."

Offline huntnnw

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2020, 10:46:18 PM »
this state needs to be permit for ALL mule deer hunting. Every unit managed or groups of units managed like NV does.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2020, 11:08:08 PM »
Ive come to the realization that no matter how many logical arguments you make, no matter how many scientific studies you source, a number of people here will continue to beat the "young 4x = good genetics, spike = bad genetics" drum. no amount of science debunking that will get through to these folks.  They want to believe it, because theyre anti apr, because they just want to kill something to feel successful.  They dont care whats best for the health of the herd, they care about going back to work and bragging about filling their deer tag every year.  Theyll ignore any data based study out there to stick with their false beliefs that go against aprs.  They want to see antlers and shoot, period, even if its a 90lb "buck."

  :tup:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2020, 11:08:29 PM »
this state needs to be permit for ALL mule deer hunting. Every unit managed or groups of units managed like NV does.

 :tup:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Deer Antler Point Regs
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2020, 12:20:19 AM »

Their antlers at a young age dont determine their antlers at maturity, especially when many bucks are born late.  Thats established.  Besides, its not about antler / trophy potential anyway.  Aprs are about protecting the youngest, most vulnerable bucks to increase percentage of bucks in the herd, and the age class of bucks, resulting in a more healthy naturally functioning deer herd, a more intense rut, higher buck winter survival, and s higher fawn survival from a saturation effect of a more condensed fawn birth time.

APRs put the pressure on the breeders.  The older more virile animals.  Studies have proven that leaving the breeding to yearlings is a big cause of spread out birthing dates.  They don't get the job done like the old studs do. 

If you want a naturally functioning deer herd, protecting the young at the expense of the mature isn't natural. In a herd that isn't hunted by humans, you will have mostly older mature deer. The young are the first to go in nature be it a bad winter or predators.  If you want lots of deer to kill, you take mostly young animals and very few of the breeders. You want just enough young to survive to replace the oldest deer that perish due to old age, predators and hunting. And you also take does to keep the male female ratio in check. You don't get more bucks in the long term by killing bucks and stockpiling does. You end up with a bunch of barren does that way. Or you spread out the birthing dates.

Deer herds fluctuate naturally depending on a variety of factors. Predators are just one of the factors, and so is hunting. Fires. bad winters. crowded ranges.  precipitation. and much more.  The big problem is hunter expectations. When hunting is good or great, many hunters expect it to be like that every year. It doesn't work that way. Never has and never will. There will be ups and downs. To think it will always be up is wishful thinking.  Think of the great years as a bonus, instead of expecting them every year.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

 


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