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Poll

Which of the Proposals Would Get Your Support if Reviewed by the Commission

Removal of General Season Spike & Cow Harvest for Quality Managed Rocky Mountain Elk
21 (12.6%)
Harvest For Draw Only Areas Would Move to 3 Point Min or Brow Tine Restriction
16 (9.6%)
Regionalized Elk Zones to distribute hunters more evenly and decrease competition in both draws and in the field (would be around 10 or more Zones)
19 (11.4%)
Tag Allocation based on hunter participations (by weapon)/ This would be done by allocating harvest and pairing that number with historic harvest success
9 (5.4%)
Longer and Even Split Seasons to distribute hunters in the field and in the draws
10 (6%)
3 or 4 year waiting period after drawing a quality or bull tag (would be category dependent meaning you would only have to wait for quality if you drew a quality tag)
18 (10.8%)
Only Get 1 Choice in Quality Category and 2 in Bull and Antlerless (to decrease competition in draws)
33 (19.8%)
Make Once in a Lifetime Draws Exclusive from Deer/Elk and Other Species - (Have to pick if you want to apply for (Deer/Elk), (Moose),(Sheep), or (Goat)
25 (15%)
None of these
16 (9.6%)

Total Members Voted: 78

Author Topic: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support  (Read 2005 times)

Online Karl Blanchard

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #75 on: June 03, 2020, 10:56:07 AM »
A side note here and something I didnt see mentioned (I may have missed it) is draw only in the three eastern wa pmu's is gonna put a MASSIVE influx of pressure on the westside herds.  Something for you westside guys to chew on :chuckle:
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Offline villajac29

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2020, 11:00:29 AM »
A side note here and something I didnt see mentioned (I may have missed it) is draw only in the three eastern wa pmu's is gonna put a MASSIVE influx of pressure on the westside herds.  Something for you westside guys to chew on :chuckle:

Thought through this already. WDFW can always cap hunting zones like idaho. Make it first come first serve. Who knows if it would even be a problem but I this is a solution if that is the case...

Offline Stein

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2020, 11:02:19 AM »
There is a near zero chance WDFW is going to do anything that will negatively impact revenue, particularly in the next couple of years but it's been the case for some time now.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2020, 11:02:43 AM »
There is no such thing as a balance, it's all in the eye of the person you are asking.  States like MT have tons of OTC and limited true quality permits and people would call that a good balance.  Other states have tons of permit only areas with limited or no general tags and people think that is well balanced too.

It's determined by the priorities of the majority and different for each species in many if not most cases.

You can argue OTC tags encourage hunter recruitment.  You can also argue a pumpkin patch and low odds of seeing a legal animal discourages hunter recruitment.  At the end of the day, there isn't support to reduce or eliminate general seasons in any unit I can think of.

The one place I feel there should be much more dialog is the number and type of special permits and antlerless tags and being intentional about how those impact the herd along with more transparent and realistic herd objectives.
Correct...you can't have your cake and eat it too.  My point...there is nothing unique at all about WA, the colockum etc. per this discussion...its the same issue that wildlife managers and commissions across the west balance...not that they necessarily try to "balance" equally the two...rather, they have to make decisions on opportunity vs. quality.  Its not easy and people will complain no matter where things come down because we all have different goals, values, experiences etc.   
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 11:09:43 AM by idahohuntr »
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Offline villajac29

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2020, 11:07:14 AM »
There is no such thing as a balance, it's all in the eye of the person you are asking.  States like MT have tons of OTC and limited true quality permits and people would call that a good balance.  Other states have tons of permit only areas with limited or no general tags and people think that is well balanced too.

It's determined by the priorities of the majority and different for each species in many if not most cases.

You can argue OTC tags encourage hunter recruitment.  You can also argue a pumpkin patch and low odds of seeing a legal animal discourages hunter recruitment.  At the end of the day, there isn't support to reduce or eliminate general seasons in any unit I can think of.

The one place I feel there should be much more dialog is the number and type of special permits and antlerless tags and being intentional about how those impact the herd along with more transparent and realistic herd objectives.
spot on stein.

My argument from the beginning has been that yak and Colockum are not under objective and the only thing that needs done is more elk permits and a more restrictive permit system. What I take issue with is comparing two polar opposite states like NV and WA.  Or using a comment from a MT biologists shock at what we have going on here when MT and WA couldnt be farther apart and I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that MT bio doesn't even know where the Colockum is let alone the dynamics of managing it. I'm not even against a draw system but what always drags me into this stuff us not calling a spade a spade.

Jacob you say you don't care if others know what you kill but you slather social media with it. You say you are moving away so don't care what happens here but then go to great lengths to change what the MAJORITY of sportsman want. If you would be a bit more honest people might be more open to your ideas. All of this sets off the ol sniffer a bit :twocents:

I don't post on facebook, and check how much I've posted on Instagram in the past year... Didn't post the bear I took my roommate to get, didn't post the old buck I mentored another hunter during late archery. I'm not a clout chaser. I could care less, I haven't made a youtube video for over a year but I guarantee it wasn't for view cause it only has like 200. You've misjudged me my friend. That may have been a motivation 2 or more years ago but I've matured and hunt for myself and the experiences it brings me. Sorry to come across the way you have taken me, but in the end I know where my motivation comes from and the people I know understand where it comes from too. I'm from west valley but live in spokane, maybe we will cross paths one day either way. Would love to have a discussion. Sounds like you know what you are talking about, I mean that sincerely!

Offline villajac29

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #80 on: June 03, 2020, 11:09:00 AM »
There is a near zero chance WDFW is going to do anything that will negatively impact revenue, particularly in the next couple of years but it's been the case for some time now.

District 8 went from 22500 hunters to 16500 in the past 5 years. Business as usual is hurting revenue. I totally get what you're saying which makes this an uphill battle but I'm sure there is a work around.

Offline villajac29

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #81 on: June 03, 2020, 11:11:55 AM »
There is no such thing as a balance, it's all in the eye of the person you are asking.  States like MT have tons of OTC and limited true quality permits and people would call that a good balance.  Other states have tons of permit only areas with limited or no general tags and people think that is well balanced too.

It's determined by the priorities of the majority and different for each species in many if not most cases.

You can argue OTC tags encourage hunter recruitment.  You can also argue a pumpkin patch and low odds of seeing a legal animal discourages hunter recruitment.  At the end of the day, there isn't support to reduce or eliminate general seasons in any unit I can think of.

The one place I feel there should be much more dialog is the number and type of special permits and antlerless tags and being intentional about how those impact the herd along with more transparent and realistic herd objectives.
Correct...you can't have your cake and eat it too.  My point...there is nothing unique at all about WA, the colockum, or this discussion...its the same issue that wildlife managers and commissions across the west balance...not that they necessarily try to "balance" equally the two...rather, they have to make decisions on opportunity vs. quality.  Its not easy and people will complain no matter where things come down because we all have different goals, values, experiences etc.   

Great point. Managing elk has its nuances but in the end its not rocket science. However saying a draw only won't improve biological health is jumping the gun. I think it very much could have biological impacts that increase herd dynamics and metrics while also increasing quality opportunity. Hard to say though

Online Karl Blanchard

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #82 on: June 03, 2020, 11:18:22 AM »
There is no such thing as a balance, it's all in the eye of the person you are asking.  States like MT have tons of OTC and limited true quality permits and people would call that a good balance.  Other states have tons of permit only areas with limited or no general tags and people think that is well balanced too.

It's determined by the priorities of the majority and different for each species in many if not most cases.

You can argue OTC tags encourage hunter recruitment.  You can also argue a pumpkin patch and low odds of seeing a legal animal discourages hunter recruitment.  At the end of the day, there isn't support to reduce or eliminate general seasons in any unit I can think of.

The one place I feel there should be much more dialog is the number and type of special permits and antlerless tags and being intentional about how those impact the herd along with more transparent and realistic herd objectives.
spot on stein.

My argument from the beginning has been that yak and Colockum are not under objective and the only thing that needs done is more elk permits and a more restrictive permit system. What I take issue with is comparing two polar opposite states like NV and WA.  Or using a comment from a MT biologists shock at what we have going on here when MT and WA couldnt be farther apart and I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that MT bio doesn't even know where the Colockum is let alone the dynamics of managing it. I'm not even against a draw system but what always drags me into this stuff us not calling a spade a spade.

Jacob you say you don't care if others know what you kill but you slather social media with it. You say you are moving away so don't care what happens here but then go to great lengths to change what the MAJORITY of sportsman want. If you would be a bit more honest people might be more open to your ideas. All of this sets off the ol sniffer a bit :twocents:

I don't post on facebook, and check how much I've posted on Instagram in the past year... Didn't post the bear I took my roommate to get, didn't post the old buck I mentored another hunter during late archery. I'm not a clout chaser. I could care less, I haven't made a youtube video for over a year but I guarantee it wasn't for view cause it only has like 200. You've misjudged me my friend. That may have been a motivation 2 or more years ago but I've matured and hunt for myself and the experiences it brings me. Sorry to come across the way you have taken me, but in the end I know where my motivation comes from and the people I know understand where it comes from too. I'm from west valley but live in spokane, maybe we will cross paths one day either way. Would love to have a discussion. Sounds like you know what you are talking about, I mean that sincerely!
fair enough but I'm from Selah born and raised so we try not to associate with you west valley types too much  :chuckle:


My personal feeling, especially in the 300 gmu's is we need to kill a bunch more elk. Like a bunch more. They have over run our deer habitat and our deer herds are a shell of what they were just a decade ago. Pair that with permit only for mule deer and they may have a chance at a come back. That's a different topic for another day though.
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Offline grundy53

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2020, 11:22:31 AM »
A side note here and something I didnt see mentioned (I may have missed it) is draw only in the three eastern wa pmu's is gonna put a MASSIVE influx of pressure on the westside herds.  Something for you westside guys to chew on :chuckle:

Thought through this already. WDFW can always cap hunting zones like idaho. Make it first come first serve. Who knows if it would even be a problem but I this is a solution if that is the case...
So to relieve pressure on the Yakima herd you want to add it to the rest of the state. Or cap regions which would make a  competition for tags in those other places... to improve the hunting experience...

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Offline villajac29

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2020, 11:23:51 AM »
There is no such thing as a balance, it's all in the eye of the person you are asking.  States like MT have tons of OTC and limited true quality permits and people would call that a good balance.  Other states have tons of permit only areas with limited or no general tags and people think that is well balanced too.

It's determined by the priorities of the majority and different for each species in many if not most cases.

You can argue OTC tags encourage hunter recruitment.  You can also argue a pumpkin patch and low odds of seeing a legal animal discourages hunter recruitment.  At the end of the day, there isn't support to reduce or eliminate general seasons in any unit I can think of.

The one place I feel there should be much more dialog is the number and type of special permits and antlerless tags and being intentional about how those impact the herd along with more transparent and realistic herd objectives.
spot on stein.

My argument from the beginning has been that yak and Colockum are not under objective and the only thing that needs done is more elk permits and a more restrictive permit system. What I take issue with is comparing two polar opposite states like NV and WA.  Or using a comment from a MT biologists shock at what we have going on here when MT and WA couldnt be farther apart and I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that MT bio doesn't even know where the Colockum is let alone the dynamics of managing it. I'm not even against a draw system but what always drags me into this stuff us not calling a spade a spade.

Jacob you say you don't care if others know what you kill but you slather social media with it. You say you are moving away so don't care what happens here but then go to great lengths to change what the MAJORITY of sportsman want. If you would be a bit more honest people might be more open to your ideas. All of this sets off the ol sniffer a bit :twocents:

I don't post on facebook, and check how much I've posted on Instagram in the past year... Didn't post the bear I took my roommate to get, didn't post the old buck I mentored another hunter during late archery. I'm not a clout chaser. I could care less, I haven't made a youtube video for over a year but I guarantee it wasn't for view cause it only has like 200. You've misjudged me my friend. That may have been a motivation 2 or more years ago but I've matured and hunt for myself and the experiences it brings me. Sorry to come across the way you have taken me, but in the end I know where my motivation comes from and the people I know understand where it comes from too. I'm from west valley but live in spokane, maybe we will cross paths one day either way. Would love to have a discussion. Sounds like you know what you are talking about, I mean that sincerely!
fair enough but I'm from Selah born and raised so we try not to associate with you west valley types too much  :chuckle:


My personal feeling, especially in the 300 gmu's is we need to kill a bunch more elk. Like a bunch more. They have over run our deer habitat and our deer herds are a shell of what they were just a decade ago. Pair that with permit only for mule deer and they may have a chance at a come back. That's a different topic for another day though.

Definitely an interesting topic though... You don't think if they were given a chance to recover and more burning was done up high to increase feed the deer could bounce back and elk harvest could be maintained?

Offline Skillet

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #85 on: June 03, 2020, 11:26:40 AM »
A side note here and something I didnt see mentioned (I may have missed it) is draw only in the three eastern wa pmu's is gonna put a MASSIVE influx of pressure on the westside herds.  Something for you westside guys to chew on :chuckle:

Thought through this already. WDFW can always cap hunting zones like idaho. Make it first come first serve. Who knows if it would even be a problem but I this is a solution if that is the case...
So to relieve pressure on the Yakima herd you want to add it to the rest of the state. Or cap regions which would make a  competition for tags in those other places... to improve the hunting experience...

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Online Karl Blanchard

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2020, 11:29:16 AM »
Definitely more summer range needs to be cleared up but is it too late? The fires we get burn so hot we get sterile ground for a good long while. And then it still comes down to carrying capacity of the winter range. Doesnt matter how good our high country is, if winter brows won't support the numbers because they are being grazed off by thousands of elk then it's a lost battle. The rise in elk populations match up with the drop in deer pretty spot on.
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Offline villajac29

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #87 on: June 03, 2020, 01:30:57 PM »
Definitely more summer range needs to be cleared up but is it too late? The fires we get burn so hot we get sterile ground for a good long while. And then it still comes down to carrying capacity of the winter range. Doesnt matter how good our high country is, if winter brows won't support the numbers because they are being grazed off by thousands of elk then it's a lost battle. The rise in elk populations match up with the drop in deer pretty spot on.

That's a good point, and with hoof rot showing up winter feeding may have diminishing returns if the bacteria spreads in the wet soil of winter... I'm also wondering what that carrying capacity is? Because deer tend to winter a bit higher than elk do and I'm wondering if winter range rehabilitation could increase that carrying capacity so that if the deer were allowed to take a deep breath and escape for a few years if you would actually see a rise in population without changing the elk models.

Don't worry I understand the correlation with the increase in elk at the late 90s and the drop off for deer. However, correlation isn't always causation so was it maybe coincidental that deer took a hit and have never been allowed to recover as the spike only management went into effect...

All I'm saying is it would be interesting to see the outcome...

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #88 on: June 03, 2020, 01:58:57 PM »
If you look at any historical winter ground for Yakima deer you are gonna find a glob of elk. From mid lake all the way up to rock creek used to be home to hundreds and hundreds of deer. My grandparents lived up chinook pass so I had a front row seat to that areas downturn. Jump across the naches river to cougar canyon, the main rattlesnake drainage and the breaks of the Triton. All historic winter ground for those deer coming out of the Hindu's. All elk now.  Other areas such as nasty creek/pine mtn area, lower Reynolds creek is the same. To the north elk have taken over the observatory and manastash. They've pushed the few deer left towards the breaks of the yakima river.  They are direct food competitors and they will and do push the deer out.

Winter of 96 sure didnt help either. To this day I've never seen anything like it. Hundreds of carcasses that spring. You couldn't go anywhere without finding death. Game department tried to help a bit in the following years with those late muzzy seasons that were designed to push the elk over into the wenas and out of those winter areas but we shot too many elk so they nuked em. Not sure what the answer is to save our deer but it sure isnt unbridled otc hunting. Only state in north america who has no restrictions on mule deer hunting. Its insanity
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Offline villajac29

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Re: What Elk Management Change Proposals do you Support
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2020, 02:07:10 PM »
If you look at any historical winter ground for Yakima deer you are gonna find a glob of elk. From mid lake all the way up to rock creek used to be home to hundreds and hundreds of deer. My grandparents lived up chinook pass so I had a front row seat to that areas downturn. Jump across the naches river to cougar canyon, the main rattlesnake drainage and the breaks of the Triton. All historic winter ground for those deer coming out of the Hindu's. All elk now.  Other areas such as nasty creek/pine mtn area, lower Reynolds creek is the same. To the north elk have taken over the observatory and manastash. They've pushed the few deer left towards the breaks of the yakima river.  They are direct food competitors and they will and do push the deer out.

Winter of 96 sure didnt help either. To this day I've never seen anything like it. Hundreds of carcasses that spring. You couldn't go anywhere without finding death. Game department tried to help a bit in the following years with those late muzzy seasons that were designed to push the elk over into the wenas and out of those winter areas but we shot too many elk so they nuked em. Not sure what the answer is to save our deer but it sure isnt unbridled otc hunting. Only state in north america who has no restrictions on mule deer hunting. Its insanity

I hope someday they make a comeback. Those benches are pretty bucks. Almost wish they were recognized as a sub species but I know genetically that doesn't hold up. Probably some of the worst success rates in the west for deer too. Its abysmal. Interesting subject for sure!

 


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