Wdfw survey

[Pegasus]

They just did increase some cougar quotas, and will likely add more changes there this fall.  They also increased bear hunting opportunity.  But we cant manage just predators or just deer and expect to fix the problem, it needs to be both, and the apr/ no antlerless is part of that.  Either way, they can give us all the predator management tools we need and it wont mean jack if people dont actually go out there and actively hunt predators, which the vast majority of deer snd elk hunters dont.

All WDFW has to do is put an open season on those wolves or cougars with a bounty and this problem ends. Just like it did when we did it years ago.

[Bango skank]

You really think it would be that easy?  Wdfw declares it and it would be so?  Get real man. 

[Pegasus]

You really think it would be that easy?  Wdfw declares it and it would be so?  Get real man.

Works every time you offer a substantial bounty. Not saying there would not be lawsuits to stop it but that is how we controlled predators in the past. We eliminated the wolves in the 1930's doing just that and controlled many other predators by doing the same. It works.

[Bango skank]

My point is that even if wdfw said "were going to do this" it would be stopped before it ever began.  And wolves were wiped out not just with a bounty, but with poisoning too, not to mention leghold traps which are illegal in this state, as are hounds for cougars.  Without hounds do you really think a bounty on cougar would cause any significant increase in harvest?
  Saying "all wdfw needs to do is put a bounty on wolves and cougars and ask that we eliminate them" is absurdly unrealistic on many levels.

You seem to be against good deer management practices being implemented in northeast washington because we have a predator problem.  Do you hunt whitetail here?

[Pegasus]

My point is that even if wdfw said "were going to do this" it would be stopped before it ever began.  And wolves were wiped out not just with a bounty, but with poisoning too, not to mention leghold traps which are illegal in this state, as are hounds for cougars.  Without hounds do you really think a bounty on cougar would cause any significant increase in harvest?
  Sayimg "all wdfw needs to do is put a bounty on wolves and cougars and ask that we eliminate them" is absurdly unrealistic on many levels.

I am all for bringing back leghold traps and hounds as that would be a tremendous help. My point really was if you look at what the wolves are taking from the deer population and they have only been here a few years and yet are probably now killing as many deer as the hunters are. No reason to look elsewhere for the reason in the reduction in the deer herd. Its obvious. They are also responsible for wiping out Washington's mountain caribou and devastating our moose population. Lets not forget the costs associated with managing the wolves and the impact on the local cattle ranches. These wolves are a genetically different animal from the wolves that used to roam here and therefore are not a native species. They should be removed just like the goats are in the Olympics. Those wolves can be removed very easily especially since a number of them are wearing tracking collars. I don't think we need to use poison to eliminate the wolves but bounties are an effective motivation.  Attacking the hunters is unnecessary but as the WDFW is determined to do so I voted for the antler restriction that excludes the youth.

[Bango skank]

Yeah, wolves are a problem, and so are cats.  But this is about apr, not predator management.  Do you hunt whitetail up here?

[Pegasus]

Yeah, wolves are a problem, and so are cats.  But this is about apr, not predator management.  Do you hunt whitetail up here?

Sometimes but not in the last few years. I know it is about apr but there would be no need for apr if the wolves were gone which is why i brought the facts about who kills what including the predators into this conversation. It is an eye opener and demonstrates what the WDFW has not done for hunters while those wolves have become their darlings.

[Bango skank]

The improvement in the deer hunting after 4 years of apr, and the decline after the apr was removed, were clear for anybody to see.  Its a change that can be made right now to improve deer hunting.  Unlike "kill all the wolves" which would be great, but is entirely unrealistic.  And lions kill more than the wolves due to their larger population, but only a tiny fraction of people even bother hunting them despite lengthy seasons and cheap tags.  Same with bear.  People want to complain about predators, point them out (rightfully so) as the problem, but they cant be bothered to be part of the solution and actually actively hunt predators themselves

[idahohuntr]

Pegasus posted some interesting mortality numbers - and nobody disputes predator effects - but even with high predator densities, hunter harvest plays a significant role in the population (not just numbers, but age structure as well).  Hunter harvest is the easiest source of mortality to manage and control as well...we can increase younger buck escapement with an apr...predators, even with more aggressive management, might still come up short in achieving a better age structure of deer if hunters kill a disproportionate number of young bucks.  And I agree with Bango on wolves - perhaps I'm even less optimistic...there will never be a hunting season in WA and no real management...so its not worth focusing on them...address the factors we have some control over (e.g., getting 2 bear limits or aprs or better cougar harvest guidelines etc.)...but as I stated earlier, hunter harvest usually plays a big role in hunted deer populations and so an apr in this situation seems very logical to me.

[Bango skank]

this being a seemingly randomly issued survey, im curious how many here received it, and how many who received it live in the ne corner.  I added a poll.

[10thmountainarcher]

this being a seemingly randomly issued survey, im curious how many here received it, and how many who received it live in the ne corner.  I added a poll.

My guess is, if you reported hunting in one of the units in the survey, you got the survey.

[Skyvalhunter]

I didn't hunt the area or receive the survey

[hunter399]

I didn't hunt the area or receive the survey

I know mine was in my junk mail/spam box.

[Tracker0721]

I got it and live in 101. They took away our doe hunting already, coasties complain the predators are eating all the game, but honestly I hunt/hike/etc everyday and we have 3 possibly 5 elk herds, small and traveling but we have no record of elk before. We have whitetails everywhere and up every drainage. And our turkey flocks are getting big. Now the only animal that’s disappearing is the mule deer herds. 20 years ago they were huge and we can’t shoot does and we have a 3pt antler restriction so clearly those don’t work or there’s a much bigger issue going on there.

So for 101 and whitetails anyone who thinks we need more restrictions hasn’t been hunting it for the past 20 years or are only hunting it from the road.

Picture added of 1 of 4 nice whitetails we just saw while hiking in what used to be muley country. 1 muley doe and we spotted over a dozen whitetails on a quick walk with the dogs up a mountain. Hunters need to hunt and they’ll find plenty of game. Biologist need to do their jobs and figure out population densities and they need to make science and fact based researched proposals - not sending out a questionnaire at random because guy A may never get more than a quarter mile from the main road and only gets out around noon while guy b may be out before sun up and be watching a meadow fill up with deer a mile from any road every day.

Science based game management not opinion based.

[huntnnw]

I have hunted 101 for years and have a buddy who lives and breathes unit 101. To say there is nothing wrong is laughable. Id venture to say most places in the mountains in 101 have lost 50-70% of the deer from just 7 years ago! Its not rocket science when you run cams and  sit in stands for days to see the decline. The mule deer are even worse and sad to see what has happened