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Author Topic: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?  (Read 1178 times)

Offline Recon

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2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« on: September 16, 2021, 08:50:04 AM »
I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle

Offline usmc74

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2021, 08:55:11 AM »
Neither of my 2 elk objected to being shot with 110gr T7 powder and Barnes 290 copper bullets.

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2021, 08:56:10 AM »
What are you using for ignition?

Offline Mtnwalker

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2021, 09:02:11 AM »
I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle

You're probably looking at 250-300 fps difference between 2 pellets and 3. I don't know what your gun is rated for as far as max charge. Right now I'd guess you're in the neighborhood of 1650-1700 fps with the 2, so you can plug that into a ballistic calculator to get a guess of what your ballistics and energy are out to 200 yards. Another option if you want a little more oomf could be switching to the magnum 777 pellets.

Offline usmc74

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2021, 09:03:37 AM »
RWS Musket caps.  I use the T7 FFF powder.

Offline WSU

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2021, 09:07:02 AM »
That will kill elk just fine.  I wouldn't change a thing if its working.  I've used the same or very similar load (same bullets and between 100-120) grains 777 and have killed a handful of bulls in the past 5 or 6 years (one a year).  I usually find the bullet under the hide on the far side but did get one pass through. 

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2021, 09:33:33 AM »
RWS Musket caps.  I use the T7 FFF powder.

My apologies I was asking the OP what he was using. I never had good luck with pellets and musket caps because the burn was so inconsistent. Iím talking like 8Ē variance between impacts. My buddy is using my ML and put a 209 conversion on it and itís shooting the 777 pellets great. Musket cap I had to use the 777 loose.

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2021, 10:39:13 AM »
RWS Musket caps.  I use the T7 FFF powder.

My apologies I was asking the OP what he was using. I never had good luck with pellets and musket caps because the burn was so inconsistent. Iím talking like 8Ē variance between impacts. My buddy is using my ML and put a 209 conversion on it and itís shooting the 777 pellets great. Musket cap I had to use the 777 loose.

I also prefer loose but never had all that many ignition issues with 777 pellets.  I did have issues with blackhorn.

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2021, 10:58:31 AM »
What are you using for ignition?

Im using 209 Primers.

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2021, 11:02:57 AM »
I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle

You're probably looking at 250-300 fps difference between 2 pellets and 3. I don't know what your gun is rated for as far as max charge. Right now I'd guess you're in the neighborhood of 1650-1700 fps with the 2, so you can plug that into a ballistic calculator to get a guess of what your ballistics and energy are out to 200 yards. Another option if you want a little more oomf could be switching to the magnum 777 pellets.
You know I did know the exact FPS because I shot through my chrono but of course, I can't find where I wrote it down at.
The rifle is rated for a magnum charge. I believe the book says 150gr pelletized or equivalent. the only reason I didn't want to change is I didn't want to rezero it. But I think maybe I will anyways just to be safe and know.

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2021, 11:05:54 AM »
Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?

Offline Mtnwalker

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2021, 11:24:04 AM »
Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?

In your scenario I'd zero off of a clean barrel because that's what you'll be hunting with and your first shot is what counts with a muzz. After zeroing then I'd figure out what it does dirty incase of a follow up shot when hunting. My gun holds zero well for 3 or 4 shots dirty but I have friends who get a poi shift after the 1st shot like you are explaining.

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2021, 08:34:07 PM »
Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?

In your scenario I'd zero off of a clean barrel because that's what you'll be hunting with and your first shot is what counts with a muzz. After zeroing then I'd figure out what it does dirty incase of a follow up shot when hunting. My gun holds zero well for 3 or 4 shots dirty but I have friends who get a poi shift after the 1st shot like you are explaining.
Cool thanks I think that makes the most sense too. I mean the poi isnít horrible but the group at a 100 yards opens up to 3-5Ē by the 4th shot. Good point about tracking follow up shots in case one is required at least the. I can Kentucky windage it.

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2021, 10:20:41 AM »
That Barnes is a great bullet. Our 3 bulls in the last two years all agree they do a great job infront of 110gr of pyrodex loose powder.

Offline raydog

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Re: 2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2021, 12:03:53 PM »
I donít know if I shared this before here. 290 grain Barnes tez

 


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