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Author Topic: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?  (Read 4606 times)

Offline Southpole

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2021, 01:32:16 PM »
1:30
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Offline Hunter4Life

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2021, 01:32:20 PM »
Internal squabbles over shooting dinks, bears, hunting with dogs or other old as the day is irrelevant. The opposition doesn't want any animal shot, ever.  They will take any incremental reduction in hunting they can create.  They don't care about our internal debates because ultimately, hunters are a slim slice of the public at large.  In a liberal state with no competition for governing, the only hope is that people who don't hunt can be convinced that hunting is a legacy and tradition with real value and it's preservation is sensible. So much so that they'd consider it when they vote. Our choir is way too small and it's bickering isn't causing or worsening the problem. 

Picking on bears is easy.  I think it's because most non hunters don't believe we eat them, just kill them.  They don't believe they are the same as deer/elk with respect to a food source.  They see it as "trophy" hunting, senseless killing without redeeming merit.  Of course that's wrong, but they don't know it.  Go ask a non hunter if they've ever eaten bear and you are likely to hear, "can you eat bear? Yuck."   Of course the ancillary benefit of protecting predators is the reduction in hunting quality and through time, hunters. 

Hunters have no specific codified rights in WA.  We are governed by the left, by preservationists, not conservationists. Governed by anti hunters and anti 2nd amendment folks. Our issues aren't even publicly known because it's not in the media.  The media is an extension of the above.  Without broad public support from those that do not hunt, we are moving gradually toward zero.   If you live in a city on the west side, ask someone in the grocery line what they think of spring bear being closed.  You'll get a blank ass stare and a "I'm sorry, what?"  That's why they know they can get away with it.

The only real chance I see is hunters getting a purely hunting rights org and
Quote
leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying.
  And by that, I mean funding campaigns for their opponents in competitive districts. Elected persons only care about not being elected again.  Appointed members only have to account to the person who appointed them.

The Hunters Heritage Council has been around since 1999, and we are the only hunting-rights organization in Washington and we have been a damn effective one.  We have a fully-time lobbyist in Olympia and in our 23 years of existence we have killed every piece of anti-hunting legislation that was introduced.  I will match that record versus any lobby organization.  We have had a few offensive pieces of legislation including the cougar pilot program and have had our hands in drafting most of the hunting advisory legislation.  When it comes to hunting matters, legislators comes to us for our expertise.  We are the only organization the endorses candidates and does electioneering for pro-hunting candidates and against anti-hunting incumbents.  You did sum it up, work in competitive districts.  We works with closely the house and senate caucuses and are friends with leadership and have the only pro-hunting PAC in the state, the Hunters Heritage Council PAC.  I consult with leadership on a consistent basis.  They want to work with the hunting community.

Here lies the problem
Quote
leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying

Why have we lost all the gun control initiatives?  It wasn't because of the NRA.  It was because billionaires on the Left out-funded us 10-1 to 15-1.  The NRA can't pump that kind of money into one state, nor do they have that kind of money to do it.  Look at the PDC reports.  Not one gun manufacturer spent one red cent to help us.  The big money, the trade industry, the NSSF, did nothing to aid in the fight to level in the playing field.  If the trade industry would have pumped money in, we could have easily leveled the playing field, or easily surpassed the anti-gun forces with the profits made by the gun manufacturers made from the Obama years.  The NSSF coffers are overflowing with money.  They fund Hunting Works for Washington, Hunting Works for America, Hunting Works for whatever state to show the economic impact of hunting and what hunters do for conservation.  I am one of the State Co-Chairs of Hunting Works.  The real purpose of this is to make sure a lead ammo ban never passes.  The NSSF is loaded, yet not one penny aided us in any initiative fight.

When WWC brought in Shane Mahoney to the Wolf Advisory Group for the pro-hunting side, I got to talk to Shane.  One thing Shane said, was that in this fight, we will always be on the short end because hunting manufacturers are cheap and will never contribute.  Every WDFW Advisory Group meeting you do to the animal-rights people are paid staff, we are volunteers.  The coffers are enriched by lawsuits.  They have lawyers like Washington Wildlife First with deep pockets.  Has anyone read the book the Real Wolf by Ted Lyon?  Best book even written on the wolf fight.  He said the anti's have never passed a piece of legislation through Congress, they won all their battles through the courts and bureaucracy. How do we get these cheapskates to contribute when they never before?

I am proud of the success of what we do with the money we do raise, 86% of our candidates do win and our endorsements are highly sought after by challengers and incumbents alike.  We have been around and we are known.  The problem is the green.

And BTW hunters DO have some specific codified rights
Quote
RCW 77.04.012
Mandate of department and commission.
The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 04:07:45 PM by Hunter4Life »
If guns kill people, then…
- pencils misspell words.
- cars make people drive drunk.
- spoons made Rosie O’Donnell fat.

Online h20hunter

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2021, 01:35:30 PM »
On now...

Online h20hunter

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2021, 01:46:35 PM »
Pretty brief but good to hear Tom N being vocal.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2021, 01:59:59 PM »
Fricken customers kept me from listening, any spring bear talk??
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Online h20hunter

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2021, 02:03:58 PM »
Nope. Very basic,  some quotes and calling attention to the fact that antis have been placed in positions of power by lord inslee.

Offline Southpole

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2021, 02:08:13 PM »
No spring bear talk. Basically saying because of the 2 commissioners personal predator advocacy they choose to make decisions for Washington’s wildlife based on “social” acceptance rather than science based hard numbers.
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Offline pickardjw

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2021, 03:31:35 PM »
Looks like I know where my company matched holiday donation is going! To the HHC.

Offline highcountry_hunter

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2021, 03:35:15 PM »
I’m not an expert on advocacy groups, but isn’t stuff like this exactly what the Sportsman’s Alliance specializes in? Does anyone know if they have been contacted on this or if they are on board to help?

Offline JeepWrangler

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2021, 04:55:26 PM »
Hello highcountry_hunter

Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.

If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to

EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)

It is a good listen.

And.. there are people taking action out there.

Let's all join them to save Hunting.
Member: Washingtonians For Wildlife Conservation
Member: Wildlife Committee of Washington
Member: Washington State Bowhunters
Financial Supporter: Blood Origins
Member: Western Bear Foundation
Pope & Young Book: Washington Black Bear

Offline highcountry_hunter

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2021, 06:35:52 PM »
Hello highcountry_hunter

Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.

If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to

EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)

It is a good listen.

And.. there are people taking action out there.

Let's all join them to save Hunting.

I’ll definitely listen tomorrow at work. What’s the name of the podcast again? PNW…?

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2021, 11:27:52 AM »
Hello highcountry_hunter

Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.

If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to

EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)

It is a good listen.

And.. there are people taking action out there.

Let's all join them to save Hunting.

Link?

Offline Mtnwalker

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2021, 11:42:41 AM »
Internal squabbles over shooting dinks, bears, hunting with dogs or other old as the day is irrelevant. The opposition doesn't want any animal shot, ever.  They will take any incremental reduction in hunting they can create.  They don't care about our internal debates because ultimately, hunters are a slim slice of the public at large.  In a liberal state with no competition for governing, the only hope is that people who don't hunt can be convinced that hunting is a legacy and tradition with real value and it's preservation is sensible. So much so that they'd consider it when they vote. Our choir is way too small and it's bickering isn't causing or worsening the problem. 

Picking on bears is easy.  I think it's because most non hunters don't believe we eat them, just kill them.  They don't believe they are the same as deer/elk with respect to a food source.  They see it as "trophy" hunting, senseless killing without redeeming merit.  Of course that's wrong, but they don't know it.  Go ask a non hunter if they've ever eaten bear and you are likely to hear, "can you eat bear? Yuck."   Of course the ancillary benefit of protecting predators is the reduction in hunting quality and through time, hunters. 

Hunters have no specific codified rights in WA.  We are governed by the left, by preservationists, not conservationists. Governed by anti hunters and anti 2nd amendment folks. Our issues aren't even publicly known because it's not in the media.  The media is an extension of the above.  Without broad public support from those that do not hunt, we are moving gradually toward zero.   If you live in a city on the west side, ask someone in the grocery line what they think of spring bear being closed.  You'll get a blank ass stare and a "I'm sorry, what?"  That's why they know they can get away with it.

The only real chance I see is hunters getting a purely hunting rights org and
Quote
leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying.
  And by that, I mean funding campaigns for their opponents in competitive districts. Elected persons only care about not being elected again.  Appointed members only have to account to the person who appointed them.

The Hunters Heritage Council has been around since 1999, and we are the only hunting-rights organization in Washington and we have been a damn effective one.  We have a fully-time lobbyist in Olympia and in our 23 years of existence we have killed every piece of anti-hunting legislation that was introduced.  I will match that record versus any lobby organization.  We have had a few offensive pieces of legislation including the cougar pilot program and have had our hands in drafting most of the hunting advisory legislation.  When it comes to hunting matters, legislators comes to us for our expertise.  We are the only organization the endorses candidates and does electioneering for pro-hunting candidates and against anti-hunting incumbents.  You did sum it up, work in competitive districts.  We works with closely the house and senate caucuses and are friends with leadership and have the only pro-hunting PAC in the state, the Hunters Heritage Council PAC.  I consult with leadership on a consistent basis.  They want to work with the hunting community.

Here lies the problem
Quote
leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying

Why have we lost all the gun control initiatives?  It wasn't because of the NRA.  It was because billionaires on the Left out-funded us 10-1 to 15-1.  The NRA can't pump that kind of money into one state, nor do they have that kind of money to do it.  Look at the PDC reports.  Not one gun manufacturer spent one red cent to help us.  The big money, the trade industry, the NSSF, did nothing to aid in the fight to level in the playing field.  If the trade industry would have pumped money in, we could have easily leveled the playing field, or easily surpassed the anti-gun forces with the profits made by the gun manufacturers made from the Obama years.  The NSSF coffers are overflowing with money.  They fund Hunting Works for Washington, Hunting Works for America, Hunting Works for whatever state to show the economic impact of hunting and what hunters do for conservation.  I am one of the State Co-Chairs of Hunting Works.  The real purpose of this is to make sure a lead ammo ban never passes.  The NSSF is loaded, yet not one penny aided us in any initiative fight.

When WWC brought in Shane Mahoney to the Wolf Advisory Group for the pro-hunting side, I got to talk to Shane.  One thing Shane said, was that in this fight, we will always be on the short end because hunting manufacturers are cheap and will never contribute.  Every WDFW Advisory Group meeting you do to the animal-rights people are paid staff, we are volunteers.  The coffers are enriched by lawsuits.  They have lawyers like Washington Wildlife First with deep pockets.  Has anyone read the book the Real Wolf by Ted Lyon?  Best book even written on the wolf fight.  He said the anti's have never passed a piece of legislation through Congress, they won all their battles through the courts and bureaucracy. How do we get these cheapskates to contribute when they never before?

I am proud of the success of what we do with the money we do raise, 86% of our candidates do win and our endorsements are highly sought after by challengers and incumbents alike.  We have been around and we are known.  The problem is the green.

And BTW hunters DO have some specific codified rights
Quote
RCW 77.04.012
Mandate of department and commission.
The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.

How have I been a hunter in WA for two and a half decades and never heard of this organization (HHC) until now? I'm not overly active when it comes to hunting related politics but I'd say I'm more involved than the average hunter. A common problem I see among sportsman related orgs is they assume everybody knows about them and don't truly do enough to get the word out about themselves and their mission. I would gladly donate more to the right organizations and causes if I could see that they were actually having a net positive impact

Offline highcountry_hunter

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2021, 05:51:40 PM »
Hello highcountry_hunter

Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.

If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to

EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)

It is a good listen.

And.. there are people taking action out there.

Let's all join them to save Hunting.

What’s the name of the podcast? I understand which episode

Offline JeepWrangler

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Re: Is this why we lost our spring bear season?
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2021, 06:40:16 PM »
Name of the podcast is:

"District of Conservation"
Member: Washingtonians For Wildlife Conservation
Member: Wildlife Committee of Washington
Member: Washington State Bowhunters
Financial Supporter: Blood Origins
Member: Western Bear Foundation
Pope & Young Book: Washington Black Bear

 


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