If you love the valley’s deer, please don’t feed them

[timberfaller]

  bigmacc post #23!!

A lot has changed since the 60's and started to run away by the 70's in the Methow.  Add to the now low numbers of deer, all the years of doe hunts, which were ONLY suppose to last 3 years!  Thats when the decline in numbers started!!  Plus the land purchases that didn't protect winter habitat! Hint: Big Valley Ranch!

As I've ranted elsewhere,  biologist should be made to work on a cattle operation for at least five years before they are allowed to practice their "degree's".   I know of no cattleman that removes producing heifers to increase their herds!

If one wants to really know the Methow herd, find the study done in the early 70's.  The funny thing is about that study, the ONE who did the most "work" was just a high school grad who knew how to shoot!!  But that is another story!! "remember when you see 10 deer in a area, record 100. For you didn't see them"  A 1970 biologist!

[bigmacc]

bigmacc post #23!!

A lot has changed since the 60's and started to run away by the 70's in the Methow.  Add to the now low numbers of deer, all the years of doe hunts, which were ONLY suppose to last 3 years!  Thats when the decline in numbers started!!  Plus the land purchases that didn't protect winter habitat! Hint: Big Valley Ranch!

As I've ranted elsewhere,  biologist should be made to work on a cattle operation for at least five years before they are allowed to practice their "degree's".   I know of no cattleman that removes producing heifers to increase their herds!

If one wants to really know the Methow herd, find the study done in the early 70's.  The funny thing is about that study, the ONE who did the most "work" was just a high school grad who knew how to shoot!!  But that is another story!! "remember when you see 10 deer in a area, record 100. For you didn't see them"  A 1970 biologist!

Yep👍 back in the day they had a herd that could support doe hunts, we always had at least a few folks in camp that would draw, not a single tag was ever used except for fire starters. Didn’t have issues with folks that took does back then, it just wasn’t our deal. Now, with the herd in a tailspin and predators killing thousands I for the life of me don’t get handing out ANY doe tags in the Methow.

[timberfaller]

The 70's started my dis-trust of the Game department(lied through their teeth), then came the joining of the two departments which caused another stain on them.  What really sent it over the edge was when they purchased the Big Valley Ranch.  I've already posted that rant!  I am a firm believer they need to get out of land purchasing and sell off(back to farmers/ranchers)other purchases.  They are thee poorest "stewards" of land!  But then, all government agency's are poor stewards!  BUT hey, they are full of degree's employee's!!  Which means my life experiences mean nothing in their world!  Rant over.

[zwickeyman]

bigmacc post #23!!

A lot has changed since the 60's and started to run away by the 70's in the Methow.  Add to the now low numbers of deer, all the years of doe hunts, which were ONLY suppose to last 3 years!  Thats when the decline in numbers started!!  Plus the land purchases that didn't protect winter habitat! Hint: Big Valley Ranch!

As I've ranted elsewhere,  biologist should be made to work on a cattle operation for at least five years before they are allowed to practice their "degree's".   I know of no cattleman that removes producing heifers to increase their herds!

If one wants to really know the Methow herd, find the study done in the early 70's.  The funny thing is about that study, the ONE who did the most "work" was just a high school grad who knew how to shoot!!  But that is another story!! "remember when you see 10 deer in a area, record 100. For you didn't see them"  A 1970 biologist!

Yep👍 back in the day they had a herd that could support doe hunts, we always had at least a few folks in camp that would draw, not a single tag was ever used except for fire starters. Didn’t have issues with folks that took does back then, it just wasn’t our deal. Now, with the herd in a tailspin and predators killing thousands I for the life of me don’t get handing out any doe tags in the Methow.

 :yeah:I 100% agree

[Skyvalhunter]

  they need to not offer any doe tags for the Methow units at all until if or even ever the herd comes back.

[Twispriver]

I'm a little surprised that neither BigMac nor Timberfaller mentioned habitat loss as a factor in the decline of the Methow mule deer herd. Most of the large parcels have become a bunch of small parcels. Each with its own home or cabin equipped with an ATV and barking dog. Ski trails, bike trails and snowmobiles are a big part of the landscape and thousands upon thousands of acres of bitterbrush has been lost to development and fire from Early Winters to the Columbia.River. Predators, hunting and doe tags are knife cuts for sure but without winter range I don't believe the herd will ever recover to resemble what it once was. 

[bigmacc]

I'm a little surprised that neither BigMac nor Timberfaller mentioned habitat loss as a factor in the decline of the Methow mule deer herd. Most of the large parcels have become a bunch of small parcels. Each with its own home or cabin equipped with an ATV and barking dog. Ski trails, bike trails and snowmobiles are a big part of the landscape and thousands upon thousands of acres of bitterbrush has been lost to development and fire from Early Winters to the Columbia.River. Predators, hunting and doe tags are knife cuts for sure but without winter range I don't believe the herd will ever recover to resemble what it once was. 

I did 👍. I mentioned that encroachment and habitat loss are also issues but imo, predators and mismanagement of predators were the number one issues. I’ll stand by that til the cows come home. I’ll say it again, if predators were all of the sudden aggressively kept in check like they were pre 95, we would see this herd noticeably bounce back within 3-5 years! I’m not saying they’d be back to numbers from the 1960,s but I think we would all notice a dramatic positive change in the growth of this herd. Predators have been killing thousands upon thousands of deer in this valley over the last few years, I know some former “state employees” and family members who have worked in other states game departments that stated years ago that the Methow was headed towards “predator pit” status and if things kept going the way they were, it would be happening sooner than later, this was back in the early 2000’s.

[timberfaller]

I'm a little surprised that neither BigMac nor Timberfaller mentioned habitat loss as a factor in the decline of the Methow mule deer herd. Most of the large parcels have become a bunch of small parcels. Each with its own home or cabin equipped with an ATV and barking dog. Ski trails, bike trails and snowmobiles are a big part of the landscape and thousands upon thousands of acres of bitterbrush has been lost to development and fire from Early Winters to the Columbia.River. Predators, hunting and doe tags are knife cuts for sure but without winter range I don't believe the herd will ever recover to resemble what it once was. 

That is well evident when one drives through the valley.  Like I said, the WDFW didn't buy up critical habitat(winter ranges) they passed them up!!  Locals, I still have contact with know the problems, bears, wolves, cats and urban sprawl!   Like cattle, old does knew where the winter ranges were at, the high concentration of doe tags back at the beginning, killed a lot of those old does.  I watched winter ranges that went undisturbed for years because the deer didn't know they were there.  Wasn't until in the 90's did I see any deer back in some of them and that was only a few to say at best.

Again, most biologist in government employ, would fail a test on animal husbandry!  But boy do they think they are smart!

Most people I know, know bears are the worst on fawns then any other predator, Wonder why they can't get spring bear hunts back going??  Betcha the department heads are clueless!! 

[huntnnw]

I'm a little surprised that neither BigMac nor Timberfaller mentioned habitat loss as a factor in the decline of the Methow mule deer herd. Most of the large parcels have become a bunch of small parcels. Each with its own home or cabin equipped with an ATV and barking dog. Ski trails, bike trails and snowmobiles are a big part of the landscape and thousands upon thousands of acres of bitterbrush has been lost to development and fire from Early Winters to the Columbia.River. Predators, hunting and doe tags are knife cuts for sure but without winter range I don't believe the herd will ever recover to resemble what it once was. 

That is well evident when one drives through the valley.  Like I said, the WDFW didn't buy up critical habitat(winter ranges) they passed them up!!  Locals, I still have contact with know the problems, bears, wolves, cats and urban sprawl!   Like cattle, old does knew where the winter ranges were at, the high concentration of doe tags back at the beginning, killed a lot of those old does.  I watched winter ranges that went undisturbed for years because the deer didn't know they were there.  Wasn't until in the 90's did I see any deer back in some of them and that was only a few to say at best.

Again, most biologist in government employ, would fail a test on animal husbandry!  But boy do they think they are smart!

Most people I know, know bears are the worst on fawns then any other predator, Wonder why they can't get spring bear hunts back going??  Betcha the department heads are clueless!!

yes bears are hard on fawns, but nothing is stopping hunters from pursuing bears come Aug 1 and yet the same guys bi&^%$ about it are the one who never go out. I read some number that less than 10% of deer and elk hunters actively pursue bears only and what I am talking about is not incidental killing of a bear on a deer hunt, but going out and hunting bears specifically

[HillHound]

As one who is out the first week of August every year I guess I can complain then. Over the last 12 years I have killed 10 bears and 2 of those were spring bears. Even being successful in fall We still need to be able to target them in the spring when they are doing the most damage. The fawns that make it to August are probably big enough they will out run the bears who are now more focused on Berries. Sure they will probably then be eaten by a cougar but that’s a whole different  topic of mismanaged predators. Predators hunt year round so they need year round management. Sure we can kill then in August…. For now. I’m confident our bear season is coming to an end and the attitudes of the people who don’t care about losing spring seasons don’t see the big picture. Whatever season you like to hunt or deem necessary is on the chopping block next so you better defend your neighbors spring bear season so he comes to bat to defend your archery elk rut hunt.

[hunter399]

Looks like the commission is going to make it illegal to feed in the winter anyway.
Along with a bunch of other hunting regs.
Not sure if that's all Commission or if you can thank your local biologists .
Instead of letting deer feed out of your hay shed.
We can just get depredation permits ,put more meat in the freezer. That will be less breeding stock does/cows in the herd.
I know alot of guys wanna follow the science ,since spring bear was a big deal. Not all biologists are friends of hunters.
This let nature take its course ,wildlife plan is not a management plan.
Like said in another reply.
Some things on paper ,not always the best management plan in the field.

[buckfvr]

If you have stock dependent on hay in your shed, you can either make a serious effort to keep deer/elk out or get depredation tags IF your situation meets criteria set by wdfw.  No effort to keep them out, no tags.  So let them eat if thats what youve always done, it will just be how it has been.  Draw attention to yourself by asking for tags, hoops for you to jump through will be deployed.


 

[hunter399]

If you have stock dependent on hay in your shed, you can either make a serious effort to keep deer/elk out or get depredation tags IF your situation meets criteria set by wdfw.  No effort to keep them out, no tags.  So let them eat if thats what youve always done, it will just be how it has been.  Draw attention to yourself by asking for tags, hoops for you to jump through will be deployed.


 

I guess that's true.
I have multiple friends with livestock.
That have 20+ deer that have been eating out of there hay sheds all winter.
Some of those friends live close to public land.
So those deer do get hunted every year by the public.

[OutHouse]

Maybe some of the granolas up there can start by NOT clearing their five acre parcel of all the trees and foliage before they build there home. I have made some off hand comments in discussions with folks up there. "You bought five acres to have a place in the woods only to cut them all down eh?".

[hunter399]

I guess it just bothering me about my friend.
He just let's them eat what they want all winter.
Doesn't really care ,doesn't try to stop them.
Even if there is a law ,he won't stop them.
Any Joe hunter can hunt these deer ,since public land is not far off from his place.
So the state makes money ,from tag sales.
Because of him and many others.

Now you want to prosecute those people.
Crazy ,just crazy.