Elk will be gone in Idaho by 2012

[idahohuntr]

Fact is hunting is not nearly as good in ID as it was even 5 years ago.

Do you base this statement on personal experience...or??  I think you are way off the mark on this.  I doubt many who have actually hunted Idaho for years (and still hunt Idaho) would agree with your statement.

[nwwanderer]

Just looking at tag sales and reg changes, something is going on in Idaho.  Gee, I wonder what

[Special T]

It has been a few years since ive been back but i do have friends there.

If the hunting has gotten better why have they changed the many of the units in the panhandle to Antlered only?

There is no doubt that hunting has gotten better in some units due the the fact that wolves have pushed elk to lower elevations making it "easier" to kill one... I dont how ever think it has made hunting better.

My favorite hunting  memorie was the first iem i went elk hunting on a guided hunt in the back country on horse back in MT. It was the Definition of great hunting. That outfitter is out of business  and hunting in that are has suffered due to wolves.

Guides dont leave/let thier lic lap or go out of business if hunting is great. If anything there is more demand to use one... I dont doubt that hunting is ID is better than WA, since that is not difficult to surpass.

[idahohuntr]

Just looking at tag sales and reg changes, something is going on in Idaho.  Gee, I wonder what

I agree, its clear deer and elk numbers are definitely increasing.  Did you see all those new hunts and permit level increases proposed for 2015 in Idaho?

[Special T]

Yes and i also saw that ID will be raising rates since many out of state hunters are not comeing to the state in the numbers they once did. Some because the areas they know and hunted are now void of elk numbers. Some are more hisitant at dropping a decent chunk of change  when the likely hood of hitting a dead zone has greatly increased and only have a week to hunt.

[AspenBud]

No prey = no wolves

Once you get beyond the fringes most people in the middle get that. The elk won't disappear. There might be fewer, but they won't go away.  Why? Because if people want wolves in numbers prey animals have to exist in numbers. If people want game to hunt you have to have game in numbers.

The question in my mind isn't one of whether elk and other ungulates will disappear, it's when will the goals of the wolf people and of big game hunters finally meet in the middle because both recognize the need for game to support their interests. That day of reckoning is coming, but things might get fairly bleak for a while before everyone wakes up.

[AspenBud]

Yes and i also saw that ID will be raising rates since many out of state hunters are not comeing to the state in the numbers they once did. Some because the areas they know and hunted are now void of elk numbers. Some are more hisitant at dropping a decent chunk of change  when the likely hood of hitting a dead zone has greatly increased and only have a week to hunt.

The recession also put a damper on a lot of hunting trips. With out of state hunters wolves and any damage they have done is likely more additive than causal.

[Special T]

Yes and i also saw that ID will be raising rates since many out of state hunters are not comeing to the state in the numbers they once did. Some because the areas they know and hunted are now void of elk numbers. Some are more hisitant at dropping a decent chunk of change  when the likely hood of hitting a dead zone has greatly increased and only have a week to hunt.

The recession also put a damper on a lot of hunting trips. With out of state hunters wolves and any damage they have done is likely more additive than causal.

When resources are scarce people look for other options.... I managed to go to KS to hunt... Ive been to AS, Possible headed to MO...I think people still go I just think they change where they spend that $ and realize that there are MORE options for spending that cash in areas with a better return on Investment.

There will always be wolves..... But how much are they bringing in the way of tourist dollars?    Oh ya... they are COSTING jobs and the IDFG  $ not generating any for those "Habitat Improvement" projects...

[bearpaw]

Fact is hunting is not nearly as good in ID as it was even 5 years ago.

Do you base this statement on personal experience...or??  I think you are way off the mark on this.  I doubt many who have actually hunted Idaho for years (and still hunt Idaho) would agree with your statement.

I can tell you quite a bit about Idaho based on our personal experiences, knowing many outfitters who operate or used to operate in wolf impacted areas, and based on published IDFG data.

Numerous elk herds were significantly impacted by wolves, the most notable being the lolo herd, but also herds were impacted in the clearwater, selway, payette, boise river, salmon, st joe, and coeur d'alene drainages, that does not include some other less impacted herds.

It's a favorite ploy of wolf groups to lump all of Idaho's units together in one lump sum total number of elk. The elk are doing very well in areas which have not been impacted by wolves and by lumping the good data with the bad data it evens out and appears elk hunting is still as good in Idaho. It's a very clever way of hiding the real impacts of wolves reducing herds in numerous elk zones.

Some of those herds are beginning to rebound because aggressive large predator management has been taking place for several years now. We know people who have been counting herds in some of those units and the IDFG data tells the story in some of these units. By giving hunters and trappers 5 wolf tags, two cougar tags, and two bear tags, IDFG has lowered the bear and cougar population in some areas so that the wolf impacts are not as significant while at the same time working to reduce the wolf population by issue thousands of wolf tags to hunters and trappers. Additionally an Idaho Sportsmen group reimburses wolf trappers up to $500 for each wolf trapped to encourage more trapping, this is because it's such an expensive endeavor for trappers to trap wolves.

I also did not include the fact that many Idahoans took wolf management into their own hands after Malloy shut down wolf hunting the first time. I stand behind that as fact which can be verified with local residents in nearly any small town near wolf impacted elk herds. Citizens openly talk about helping take care of the problem. Unfortunately that is what happens when officials refuse to help the people in these areas.

I think it's more than fair to say that very aggressive lethal wolf management Idaho is saving some of these wolf impacted big game herds and preventing additional herds from being impacted. When the OP originally posted his prediction this aggressive wolf management had not taken place and herds were still declining, so his prediction (even though it's pretty impossible to wipe out every elk) would not have been that far off base regarding wolves impacting most of Idaho's elk herds. I doubt he meant every single elk would be killed but more likely that most herds would have been impacted!

Thankfully Idahoans pushed for aggressive management which altered the trend of more and more declining herds that was occurring at the time of this topic was first posted. 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Yes and i also saw that ID will be raising rates since many out of state hunters are not comeing to the state in the numbers they once did. Some because the areas they know and hunted are now void of elk numbers. Some are more hisitant at dropping a decent chunk of change  when the likely hood of hitting a dead zone has greatly increased and only have a week to hunt.

That doesn't make sense on face value. If people are not coming to hunt because it isn't worth it, you raise the prices and that somehow makes it more worth it?

What I do know for a fact, last year in Idaho, you could buy a second non res elk or deer tag for $100 off the price of the first one. They were discounting tags to sell them. That makes more sense.

I believe the economy and gas prices was the major cause of out of State hunting decreases.

[bearpaw]

Yes and i also saw that ID will be raising rates since many out of state hunters are not comeing to the state in the numbers they once did. Some because the areas they know and hunted are now void of elk numbers. Some are more hisitant at dropping a decent chunk of change  when the likely hood of hitting a dead zone has greatly increased and only have a week to hunt.

That doesn't make sense on face value. If people are not coming to hunt because it isn't worth it, you raise the prices and that somehow makes it more worth it?

What I do know for a fact, last year in Idaho, you could buy a second non res elk or deer tag for $100 off the price of the first one. They were discounting tags to sell them. That makes more sense.

I believe the economy and gas prices was the major cause of out of State hunting decreases.

The hunting industry is what I do. I talk to roughly 5 to 15 hunters from across the nation almost every day of the year. Hunters across the country know that wolves have impacted Idaho herds and many tell me that they were on hunts in some of those impacted areas and saw no elk or elk sign, they say they will never go back to those impacted areas.

Wolves are definitely what impacted Idaho sales the most.

Montana has sold out or nearly sold out every year, but Montana doesn't have as many impacted areas as Idaho. Utah which has almost no wolves has more people applying for tags than they had 5 years ago.

[Bean Counter]

Yes and i also saw that ID will be raising rates since many out of state hunters are not comeing to the state in the numbers they once did. Some because the areas they know and hunted are now void of elk numbers. Some are more hisitant at dropping a decent chunk of change  when the likely hood of hitting a dead zone has greatly increased and only have a week to hunt.

That doesn't make sense on face value. If people are not coming to hunt because it isn't worth it, you raise the prices and that somehow makes it more worth it?

It's called elasticity of demand. Econ 101, Francis.
http://m.sparknotes.com/economics/micro/elasticity/section1.rhtml

[bearpaw]

I talked to one elk hunter who hunted 12 years in a row with the same Selway Outfitter. The last 3 years he didn't get an elk and each of those years he saw less sign so he quit going to Idaho. He goes to other places now. That outfitter is no longer in business because most of his hunters quit coming and new hunters do not want to hunt in wolf impacted areas either.

[bearpaw]

In 1995 a hunter from California bought a Lolo outfitting business for $250,000 cash. He had hunted with the outfitter for several years and the elk hunting was excellent. The business did fine for a few more years and then the wolf impacts befgan happening, in a few short years his hunters were not killing any elk and most quit coming.

Another outfitter I know purchased the business a few years ago for about $40,000. This year he gave up on it and put it up for sale. There is some decent bear hunting, I heard he sold it for about $30,000.

We have a friend who had a restaurant along the Payette River. His business consisted of rafters in the summer and elk hunters in the fall. The rest of the year they just made ends meet so they could benefit during the good times. When the wolves multiplied and elk herds really declined and the elk hunters quit coming, after a couple years they had to shut down the business. He took a job out of town to feed his family. I can tell you that guy has no use for wolves at all.

That is precisely how businesses have been impacted in some of these wolf areas.

[BOWHUNTER45]

In 1995 a hunter from California bought a Lolo outfitting business for $250,000 cash. He had hunted with the outfitter for several years and the elk hunting was excellent. The business did fine for a few more years and then the wolf impacts befgan happening, in a few short years his hunters were not killing any elk and most quit coming.

Another outfitter I know purchased the business a few years ago for about $40,000. This year he gave up on it and put it up for sale. There is some decent bear hunting, I heard he sold it for about $30,000.

We have a friend who had a restaurant along the Payette River. His business consisted of rafters in the summer and elk hunters in the fall. The rest of the year they just made ends meet so they could benefit during the good times. When the wolves multiplied and elk herds really declined and the elk hunters quit coming, after a couple years they had to shut down the business. He took a job out of town to feed his family. I can tell you that guy has no use for wolves at all.

That is precisely how businesses have been impacted in some of these wolf areas.

Just sad !