Damn Bears

[Abolt338]

Just because "they" do it, doesnt mean "you" need to, or make it right. This acceptance of others is crap. Set the example. Don't just give in to your neighbors poor decision making.

That's exactly my point... let others raise their children in a manner they see fit. Larry spends quality time with his children, he makes no excuses for them and holds them accountable for their actions (and I'm sure their words)... he is not concerned with the 'acceptance of others', he's concerned with raising children who can be their own people. This is not 'poor decision making'... rather, it's a rational decision to disregard some of the conventional wisdom (oxymoron) which you seem to favor. Again... constant foul language around children probably isn't the best idea... that I'll conceed. However, the good far offsets the bad in this situation. Bad language falls far down on the list of things I don't want my children exposed to... things like accountability, free thinking, decision making, and consiquences are a much bigger concern to me.

I'm not saying it should be perfectly acceptable to have a class full of 9 year olds dropping F-Bombs... but that's where the learning of consiquences and accountability come in. We've learned where those words are acceptable, and where they're not... children will learn the same thing very quickly too, unless their parents and other authority figures don't hold them accountable (which is the true crime here). Poor parenting isn't defined by language, it's defined by results... untill we've all raised perfect kids, I think we should keep the rocks inside our glass houses. ~Josh

You keep saying that the good outweighs the bad, but why does it have to be both?  Can't he take his children hunting, place upon them responsibility, etc., while at the same time demonstrating self-control and good behavior/language?

You're saying that because A is more important than B, B doesn't matter at all.  I'm saying that you can do A and B at the same time...which is the better decision.

And buddy, last time I checked, teaching your kids good social skills was a CONSERVATIVE aspect of good parenting.  If it was a CA mindset, they wouldn't care about it at all...

RW

[JoshT]

You keep saying that the good outweighs the bad, but why does it have to be both?  Can't he take his children hunting, place upon them responsibility, etc., while at the same time demonstrating self-control and good behavior/language?

You're saying that because A is more important than B, B doesn't matter at all.  I'm saying that you can do A and B at the same time...which is the better decision.

And buddy, last time I checked, teaching your kids good social skills was a CONSERVATIVE aspect of good parenting.  If it was a CA mindset, they wouldn't care about it at all...

RW

I'm not talking about social skills at all, in fact quite the converse... I'm talking about free-thinking children with an understanding of situations, decisions, and consiquences. Last time I checked the Liberal side wasn't too keen on accountability or consiquences. And, why must we be different as a parent than we are as an outdoorsman or working adult? If you feel you're a positive and upright person... who throws down an expletive or two, then why would you act differently around your children?

I am saying the good out weighs the bad... and why does there have to be bad? Even if he never used a bad word... we'd probably find something else to fault him for... no life jacket in the boat, or no hunter orange, or not wearing a helmet on a 4-wheeler... whatever. Because, it's always easier to tear stuff down than to edify it, and if you look for the bad... you'll find it... always (just ask Michael Moore).

If my kid tells your kid to F-off... then it is what it is... teach your kid that words are just that... words. I'd rather my son tell some other kid to F-off... than to haul off a slug the kid in the nose. I'd also be sure that whatever consiquences were handed down, for either, would be upheld and/or magnified. If you want to talk that way as a child, fine... but, also understand that your words and actions have consiquences... the sooner they learn that, the better off they'll be.

All that stuff aside, I appreciate all the parents on this board... and afield. It's my belief that those who hunt quite often raise children who are courteous, positive, upstanding citizens... there must be something in the fresh air that stimulates rational thinking. ~Josh

[Abolt338]

I am saying the good out weighs the bad... and why does there have to be bad? Even if he never used a bad word... we'd probably find something else to fault him for... no life jacket in the boat, or no hunter orange, or not wearing a helmet on a 4-wheeler... whatever. Because, it's always easier to tear stuff down than to edify it, and if you look for the bad... you'll find it... always (just ask Michael Moore).

The truth is there doesn't "have to be bad," but when bad is there, we can't just close our eyes and pretend it's not.  No life jacket in the boat - illegal - bad.  No hunter's orange - illegal if required - bad.  Not wearing a helmet on a 4-wheeler - illegal if required - bad.  All of these things are bad in and of themselves, regardless of a person's position (unless that position is anarchy).  No one is looking for the bad in these situations; it's simply there, and it's there because someone allowed it to be there.

Should we excuse all of these things because a person thinks they are an overall good guy?

If my kid tells your kid to F-off... then it is what it is... teach your kid that words are just that... words. I'd rather my son tell some other kid to F-off... than to haul off a slug the kid in the nose. I'd also be sure that whatever consiquences were handed down, for either, would be upheld and/or magnified. If you want to talk that way as a child, fine... but, also understand that your words and actions have consiquences... the sooner they learn that, the better off they'll be.

If your kid tells my kid to F-off it's a reflection on your bad parenting (with reasonable consideration to the age of the child).  Don't get me wrong:  I'm a HUGE advocate for kids taking responsibility for their actions and being able to mature early and often.  But that doesn't free the parents from their role as guides, mentors, and teachers.

You say it's better for him to say F-off than to slug some kid.  I say it's better to do neither, instead taking a higher road, controlling his/her emotions, and walking away the more mature individual.

RW

[JoshT]

I'm not saying any of it is right... I'm just saying there's a whole lot worse things that could be going on, than a little foul language. I'd rather my child not do either of those things too... but at the end of the day even a child has the ability to decide his/her plan of action. I guess to me, when it comes to child-rearing, the consiquences and accountability are much more important than the rule.

I guess the video/moral police will have to send out their citations... I'm sure ole' stick will find a good use for them, just like the stuff that comes in rolls.

[ICEMAN]

Josh, I think we actually think alike on this one, now reading your additional posts. Maybe I misunderstood the original post.

What does bother me in society, even in my own family, is that many  people have no problem exposing my children to things that I really want to wait on exposing them too. They feel it is their right to spill the beans to my kids.  Sort of like someone explaining that there is no Santa Claus to a seven year old. Issues about sex, alternative lifestyles, etc..... I would rather that the two lesbians at the ballpark who felt like they had to play tonsil hockey in front of everyones kids to prove their point....this type of attitude...bothers me. 

[Jamieb]

That is a good video. Larry showed it to me a few years ago when I was up there for a bear hunt. Larry's youngest boy (Cooper) was sitting next to me doing the comentary while I watched the video, it was a riot.

BTW He didnt shoot the bear.