Free: Contests & Raffles.
harvest went down because of the ice storm in 95 or 96 and bad winters. Yes weather effects big game. We have not had anything like that since and quite a few really mild winters for a lot of the 2000s in Idaho. lolo elk herd 20000 before wolves 1700 after, yellowstone 20000 before wolves 6500 after. Facts dont lie.
harvest went down because of the ice storm in 95 or 96 and bad winters. Yes weather effects big game. We have not had anything like that since and quite a few really mild winters for a lot of the 2000s in Idaho. l
Quote from: idaho guy on February 24, 2014, 04:37:53 PMharvest went down because of the ice storm in 95 or 96 and bad winters. Yes weather effects big game. We have not had anything like that since and quite a few really mild winters for a lot of the 2000s in Idaho. lWhat about 2007 and 2008? Herds were knocked down then in Idaho as well as Eastern Washington.
Quote from: Sitka_Blacktail on February 24, 2014, 05:53:09 PMQuote from: idaho guy on February 24, 2014, 04:37:53 PMharvest went down because of the ice storm in 95 or 96 and bad winters. Yes weather effects big game. We have not had anything like that since and quite a few really mild winters for a lot of the 2000s in Idaho. lWhat about 2007 and 2008? Herds were knocked down then in Idaho as well as Eastern Washington.Are you talking about the winter in those years? We had some big snow years not sure if it was 07-08 but never had anything like the ice storm in the 2000s. Anyways, big snow doesnt always spell big winter kill. If the animails have time to migrate and dont get caught up high they can come out ok . Anyways not sure where youre going with the 07-08 thing
Quote from: bearpaw on February 22, 2014, 03:05:53 PMSitka you are a persistent bugger, I'll give you that. However, again you are trying to tap a point that is probably useless in this discussion. To my knowledge, that elk herd hasn't suffered any wolf impacts yet, so it's sort of a useless post at best for this discussion. Just for a reminder, it's the wolf impacted herds that have reduced hunter opportunity and damaged local businesses. Think Yellowstone, lolo, selway, middlefork, panhandle, etc,... and you will be more on target. Ok Bearpaw explain this chart which tracks Idaho's big game harvest from 1935 to 2005. If not having wolves is such a panacea for game populations and harvest, why did Idaho's herds crash in the mid 70s and why did they go up and down similarly to the present, before there were any wolves "Introduced"? http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/Statewide-Big-Game-Harvest.htm At least admit that fluctuating game populations can happen from other influences other than predators. The difference back then was that they didn't have wolves to blame for natural ups and downs in game population. I say all this focus on wolves takes attention away from other factors that can depress herds like weather and habitat and man made disturbances such as logging, farming, road building, and an ever growing population.As it is elk harvest in Idaho shrunk from a high of 28,000 in 1994 to 17,000 in 1999 before wolves could have had any significant impact and climbed back to 21,500 in 2005 after wolves had become established and spread. It has ranged from 17,000 to 15,000 since. But even those numbers wouldn't be considered poor historically. In fact until 1988 when 20,000 were killed. The largest previous harvest was the year before, 1987, when 16,000 were killed. Nobody was crying about that then, but in 2012 when (only)16,000 elk are killed it's a hunting tragedy!Same with deer. The harvest dropped from an all time high in 1990 of 72,000 to 38,6000 a few short years later in 1997, again well before wolves would have been any kind of measurable impact (being reintroduced in 1995). Then as the wolf population climbed and spread, against all of the logic you like to throw out about wolves ruining hunting, the harvest climbed again to about 50,000 in 2012. I'm sorry my friend, but the results don't agree with your hypothesis. Can predators combine to affect game populations where other conditions are poor? Yes. But will they wipe out healthy populations of game that have the right natural conditions to prosper? Definitely no.Hunt and trap wolves to your heart's content where legal. But unless the other limiting factors are addressed, the results will still be disheartening.
Sitka you are a persistent bugger, I'll give you that. However, again you are trying to tap a point that is probably useless in this discussion. To my knowledge, that elk herd hasn't suffered any wolf impacts yet, so it's sort of a useless post at best for this discussion. Just for a reminder, it's the wolf impacted herds that have reduced hunter opportunity and damaged local businesses. Think Yellowstone, lolo, selway, middlefork, panhandle, etc,... and you will be more on target.
Early 1900s.— European settlement brought changes to the landscape. Millions of sheep, cattle, and horses were brought into southern Idaho. Black bear (Ursus americanus) and mountain lion (Puma concolor) populations generally received little or no protection and gray wolves (Canis lupus) were functionally extirpated by the early 1900s. In southern and parts of central Idaho, extreme overgrazing combined with fire suppression efforts turned what was primarily perennial grass ranges into shrubfields. Unregulated harvest and conversion of grass dominated ranges to shrubfields likely resulted in fewer elk in southern Idaho.Similarly, landscape-level changes occurred in northern Idaho during the early 1900s. However, the impact was likely more positive for elk habitat and populations. Extensive wildfires created a mosaic of grass, shrubfields, and forested habitats. Nearly extirpated local elk populations were augmented with elk from Yellowstone National Park (YNP) following the large wildfires. Timber harvest also contributed to moving large portions of the forested landscape back towards a more early seral condition. Under these conditions elk flourished in northern Idaho.Mid 1900s.— In north-central Idaho, elk populations probably peaked in the 1960s. As the newly created seral habitats aged and succession continued to move towards a climax state, habitat potential declined. Fire suppression efforts resulted in forest habitat advancing to later seral stages and preventing natural regeneration of early seral stages more favorable to elk.By the 1970s, hunter numbers and access had increased to the point where restrictive seasons were necessary to reduce elk vulnerability to harvest. Either-sex bag limits throughout most of Idaho were replaced by antlered-only bag limits in 1976. Elk populations responded, and by the late 1980s elk were once again abundant enough to support more liberal antlerless opportunity. Predator populations were likely reduced or suppressed during the mid-1900s, but had some localized effects on elk in remote areas.Late 1900s.— In portions of northern Idaho, the mid-1990s witnessed another downward cycle in elk numbers. Declining habitat potential in forested habitat, black bear and mountain lion predation, and the localized impacts of hard winters (1996 and 1997) all played a role. With protection and harvest restrictions implemented during the 1970-1990s, black bear and mountain lion populations likely stabilized and began to flourish, particularly in central mountain areas (commonly referred to as backcountry) where hunting access is difficult. Wolves became re-established in Idaho during the 1990s through USFWS reintroduction, and through wolves from southern Canada and northwest Montana naturally re-occupying historic wolf habitat. Wolf predation on elk has further accelerated declines in elk herds in many parts of northern Idaho.In other portions of the state, including much of southern Idaho, elk numbers actually increased during this same timeframe. A change in grazing practices that promoted grass production, farming practices that favored resting farmland, and continued timber cuts that favored early seral habitat stages all enabled southern Idaho elk populations to grow to all-time record highs during the latter half of the 1900s. Today.— Elk herds in the southern part of the state are mostly robust and limited more by sociological constraints, such as damage to agricultural crops and property, than by habitat suitability. Elk herds in the central and northern mountains continue to be suppressed by predators and habitat declines. Elk herds in the prairies and agricultural areas of northern Idaho are mostly robust and population levels are constrained by crop and property damage. In total, Idaho’s elk population in early 2013 was estimated at approximately 107,000 animals.
Let's stick to the original topic.Sitka and others; can you truthfully state and factually confirm that wolves have had no negative impact on businesses in Idaho and Montana?
