End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help

[JimmyHoffa]

The indians can take more than 50% if the others don't meet their quotas.  If whites can only harvest 40% of the quota (commie and sporty), then indians can take their remaining 10% (or whatever the magic number at the time is).  Forgone opportunity.  From what I've heard/read, this is big for things like wild steelhead.  Lots of whites go play catch and release and don't retain the wild fish, eventhough the WDFW allows 1 wild fish a year and budgets it in the fish take quota.  Then as WDFW determines what is being met, they can tell the indians that there is still X number of fish (wild) available for harvest.  So nets continue to stay in after all the fall hatchery runs and before the springer runs.  I would suspect  the Columbia would be the same.  This is the way the quota system was explained to me, if I'm wrong please update me...it was something about how the treaty written says the indians are entitled to 'at least' half--specifying a minimum but not a maximum amount of the fish.

[PlateauNDN]

What I see and hear is the bad apples from each side are ruining it for everybody.  I know what I've seen and heard and some may be true and some may not be but, what I do know is there is always somebody ruining for the rest.  You see one bad apple and the taste of that bad apple lingers in your mouth and sets the precedent for the rest of the apples.  Do I go down to the river and leave nets to float for days on in?  Do I go down to the river with my buddies and drink up a storm?  Do I leave coolers of fish laying by the bank side or on somebodies property?  These are all attributes of a few bad apples that need to be dealt with and turning a blind eye or not doing anything is never going to solve the problem.

I came across a problem the other day and I don't know for certain who did it but I'm pretty sure I know why?  I was in the hills with my children and we came across a nice big 2x2 who was shot and left to rot.  Very nice big 2x2 with a very thick neck and body which I believe occured the evening before because the evidence points towards a low light scenario.  After photographing everything in the surrounding area and taking coordinates I began checking him to see if the meat was salvageable, it was not. 

My children did not and at this age could not understand why somebody would shoot a deer and not take it home?  Now do I say all non-tribal guys are like that and cry for all the rifle hunters to be restricted/banned and leave the muzzies and archers because they are more responsible (possibly)?  Is is the rifle hunters fault because they were out walking around and unsure of what they shot and killed because they were to drunk from having a few back at camp?  Are they to blame for all the problems?  Tree huggers and conservatives see them and label every sportsmen as such and if you don't like it then what makes you think I would like to be called such a hunter.

It's not any one group or method, it's everybody because we all play a part in the overall picture.  It has to start somewhere and with something if we are all to have a future in the harvesting of the natural resources.  I'm done.

[WSU]

Yes, this thread is about commercial fishing... that said, why should they be banned, if the other nets in the river will just get the fish ??   

IF we are not going to ban ALL gill netting, then there is not one shred of a good idea here...

I told you why above.  The tribes won't catch more fish when the nets are gone.  Your statement regarding "if the other nets in river will just get the fish" is completely baseless.  The fact that you have seen practices by some Indians that you disagree with appears to blind you to the reality of what is going on.

Yes they will still get their share....   right now it is a 3 way drawing.. take the commercial guys out, it is a 2 way battle..  Last time I checked 50% is more than 33%

AND any wanton waste of resources is enough to turn me off to anybody and their "PRACTICES"   Have you ever pulled into the rest area just east of Hood River and smelled the rotting fish??

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.  What part of the tribes get 50% and the non-tribal fishers get 50% can you not understand?  How does sportfishers getting the commercial share of our non-tribal 50% result in the tribes getting more? 

[WSU]

You guys are missing a very important point on all this about the salmon.

The Natives are now taking over the Hatcheries, one at a time.  They will control the fish, so they will control the fishery.  Mark my words, it will happen.  They could care less about sportfishermen, or commercial fishermen.   Just how much salmon THEY can net...  I have been fishing at Drano, while the Natives sit and drink beer and laugh and make jokes about the stupid white man, having to use a line and a hook to catch a fish...  later they get to put their nets into an enclosed area, and catch everything that swims... 

I heard one native bragging he makes about 5K a night netting at Drano during the Springer season...   

So it IS all about the money... HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT RITUALS, OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES.....  It is all about the money, plain and simple...

HB, this is a too broad sweep of the pen. Last year, the DFW announced that a budget shortfall would necessitate the elimination of a million smoults of coho from a hatchery on the Ho. The Quinaults stepped up with $10K to keep the hatchery open at full capacity, remaining under the direction of the state. The are other instances of where this tribe and others are shown to be good stewards of our resources without ulterior motives.

the ulterior motive is their annual catch  without the hatcheries they have no fish to catch and sell so they lose revenue, the state basically got out of the hatchery business a few years back and the only private industry that was ready and able to take over was the Tribes.  universities and colleges have canned their wildlife biology/management and fisheries programs and the environmental movement has convinced  everyone that netting is bad but fresh wild salmon is better than farmed fish.  The wild foods movement right now is huge with more and more people revolting against the gma and feedlot/hormone/antibiotic farmed animals and foods.  I doubt the market for fresh wild salmon will decrease any time soon.

Wrong again.  Please enlighten us and identify what hatchery WDFW is no longer operating and the tribe has taken over.  In fact, please identify the hatcheries the state closed to "get out of the hatchery busines."  I'm very interested to see what facts back up your theory.

And, the reason that many are against farmed salmon has nothing to do with feedlots or hormones or anitbiotics.  That issue is really neither here nor there in this discussion, but do a little research into the problems BC is running in to.

[pianoman9701]

What I see and hear is the bad apples from each side are ruining it for everybody.  I know what I've seen and heard and some may be true and some may not be but, what I do know is there is always somebody ruining for the rest.  You see one bad apple and the taste of that bad apple lingers in your mouth and sets the precedent for the rest of the apples.  Do I go down to the river and leave nets to float for days on in?  Do I go down to the river with my buddies and drink up a storm?  Do I leave coolers of fish laying by the bank side or on somebodies property?  These are all attributes of a few bad apples that need to be dealt with and turning a blind eye or not doing anything is never going to solve the problem.

I came across a problem the other day and I don't know for certain who did it but I'm pretty sure I know why?  I was in the hills with my children and we came across a nice big 2x2 who was shot and left to rot.  Very nice big 2x2 with a very thick neck and body which I believe occured the evening before because the evidence points towards a low light scenario.  After photographing everything in the surrounding area and taking coordinates I began checking him to see if the meat was salvageable, it was not. 

My children did not and at this age could not understand why somebody would shoot a deer and not take it home?  Now do I say all non-tribal guys are like that and cry for all the rifle hunters to be restricted/banned and leave the muzzies and archers because they are more responsible (possibly)?  Is is the rifle hunters fault because they were out walking around and unsure of what they shot and killed because they were to drunk from having a few back at camp?  Are they to blame for all the problems?  Tree huggers and conservatives see them and label every sportsmen as such and if you don't like it then what makes you think I would like to be called such a hunter.

It's not any one group or method, it's everybody because we all play a part in the overall picture.  It has to start somewhere and with something if we are all to have a future in the harvesting of the natural resources.  I'm done.

Put very well and what I was feebly trying to convey. Thanks Plateau.

[Curly]

Is it really a bad apple issue though?  Sure some bad apples would really make the issue worse, but I assume that nets can get away from even the best intentioned, conscientious gill netter.  Nets are just bad news for a river.

How many fish can get past all the nets, dams, and sealions?  It would be nice to start helping the fish runs with something so easy to fix............taking the nets out of the river.

[pianoman9701]

I'm done, too. Buh bye all.

[runamuk]

Wsuj obviously you know more than I....I was referrin g to a couple years ago when the state shut down the hatcheries they were runnning en masse....tribes took over many as there are few private parties interested in the hatchery business.....hard to be a business if you cant ake money...
and with that I exit....I am done for now with hatcheries and fisherman against fisherman against tribe against ....well you dont get idea because I make no sense...

Lets just go with I will not help endone type of/fishing for only one user group.....

[WSU]

Wsuj obviously you know more than I....I was referrin g to a couple years ago when the state shut down the hatcheries they were runnning en masse....tribes took over many as there are few private parties interested in the hatchery business.....hard to be a business if you cant ake money...
and with that I exit....I am done for now with hatcheries and fisherman against fisherman against tribe against ....well you dont get idea because I make no sense...

Lets just go with I will not help endone type of/fishing for only one user group.....

I'm not trying to be an ass, but rather am hoping to get folks to change their minds.  Your opinion is based at least in part on things that never happened (hatchery issue you are talking about).  We have a history a few hundred years long proving we are over-fishing the columbia and gillnetters are directly responsible for a lot of that.  Doing nothing makes us all more a part of the problem than a part of the solution.  How long are we  (and you specifically) going to be content with the status quo while we watch our natural resources go further and further down the drain because we don't want to make changes?

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

Look back at the history of the gill net.

I bet if you look, they got the rest of the methods outlawed.

Get rid of the non selective harvest on the river...

[WSU]

Look back at the history of the gill net.

I bet if you look, they got the rest of the methods outlawed.

Get rid of the non selective harvest on the river...

That is exactly what occurred.  They are just getting exactly what they did to the other methods.

[runamuk]

If the nets come out it has to be all nets otherwise it is really pointless annd punishes a small portion of the population .... it isnt about status quo for me it is the bigger picture andx it is pointless to control one population and not another

Has oregon banned gillnetting?

[WSU]

If the nets come out it has to be all nets otherwise it is really pointless annd punishes a small portion of the population .... it isnt about status quo for me it is the bigger picture andx it is pointless to control one population and not another

Has oregon banned gillnetting?

Oregon is working on it right now.  And, it isn't pointless to remove non-tribal nets.  The tribes are going to catch the same number with or without the non-tribal nets.  However, there will be a huge benefit to our economy and arguably to our troubled runs (because gillnetters won't be killing as many non-target species, for example steelhead).  Like it or not, saying that it is pointless is not supported by any fact and in fact is directly contrary to all evidence I have seen.  Perhaps you can point out how it won't make a difference? 

Edit: And, what do you say about the hundreds or thousands of jobs that would be created by having more robust sport fishing seasons in the big C?  Why are those hundreds of jobs worth less than a hundred part-time jobs?

[runamuk]

Have you seen the tribal nets with your own eyes and the sheer quantity of them....there is no way leavin g theem and removing the others is going to have as great an impact as you seem to think....i support removing all nets otherwise I might support banning all fishing to remove all nets maybe make the columbia draw permit only

[Curly]

You know, there used to be commercial duck and goose hunting.  They used 2ga and larger shotguns and practically wiped out the waterfowl population.  Maybe commercial hunting never should have been banned either.