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Author Topic: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help  (Read 63178 times)

Offline runamuk

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #90 on: October 19, 2012, 09:09:19 AM »
its ok we can slowly continue working toward draw only wildlife in washington  :tup: after all the resources should belong to the few with either the most money or the loudest voices...so the rich and the enviro's  :tup:

Know that if you support this measure there will be many more behind it taking opportunity not giving more, the strongest backing for this is likely coming from all those liberals everyone on this website hates so much.....so go ahead and work on this and when they come for your method next.....I will remind you how it will help the wildlife/fish...or benefit a more worthy part of the economy.

they still commercial hunt in parts of the US its just been renamed and licensed differently to allude to it being a sport.  And while we think commercial use of wildlife/fish is bad there are those who think sport is even worse and they work diligently to get all use of animals wild and domestic taken from us. 

Everyone just stop eating fish and gillnetting would end ;)

Now I dont have time but in a budget passed a few years back when I had time and desire and read the entire friciking budget one of the things cut was hatcheries they were to be sold off to the private sector I have schoolwork, and doctors appointments and long days and sleepless nights at the moment so dont feel like spending the time to pour through the whole fricking state budgets of the past few that were passed...but it is in there that is why many of the hatcheries are just sitting empty now, there was no income generated they were operating at a loss so the budget cut them. :dunno:

Offline WDFW Hates ME!!!

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #91 on: October 19, 2012, 09:27:47 AM »
So the season for sturgeon in he lower columbia has all but been shut do
wn. The incidental by catch of sturgeon in the commercial nets should not be allowed. No sport season because lack of fish. But the netters sure can keep the incidental bycatch.
The argument about the native nets is a stupid argument. Look at the smelt on the lower river. Commercials taking a majority of the run for what? And we had to get the esa listed to keep the run for being netted to extiction. It isn't just about salmon and steelhead.
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2012, 09:36:18 AM »
So the season for sturgeon in he lower columbia has all but been shut do
wn. The incidental by catch of sturgeon in the commercial nets should not be allowed. No sport season because lack of fish. But the netters sure can keep the incidental bycatch.
The argument about the native nets is a stupid argument. Look at the smelt on the lower river. Commercials taking a majority of the run for what? And we had to get the esa listed to keep the run for being netted to extiction. It isn't just about salmon and steelhead.

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Offline Curly

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2012, 09:38:25 AM »
Well, the net ban initiative didn't get anywhere close to enough votes to ban nets on the Columbia and Puget Sound (in 1999, I think) because of not wanting to give up something that natives still get to do.  But the right thing to do is to get nets out.

Hopefully the Commission will do the right thing.  I don't have much faith in them though, so I won't hold my breath.  I will cross my fingers though............. :)
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Offline WSU

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #94 on: October 19, 2012, 09:52:11 AM »
Have you seen the tribal nets with your own eyes and the sheer quantity of them....there is no way leavin g theem and removing the others is going to have as great an impact as you seem to think....i support removing all nets otherwise I might support banning all fishing to remove all nets maybe make the columbia draw permit only

Yes.  you do know that the there are specific numbers of fish allotted to both tribal and non-tribal and that catch is regulated by the time the nets are in the water, right?  You seeing nets has very little to do with how many fish the tribal fishers are allowed to catch.  Your anecodotal evidence simply is not supported by reality.  Nor is your proposed solution. 

You are basically arguing we should continue letting things go to *censored* because you see nets in the Columbia and thereby assume, without any numbers, data, or other hard evidence, that removing the nets below bonneville and pumping millions into our economy will do no good. 

Offline WDFW Hates ME!!!

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #95 on: October 19, 2012, 11:13:46 AM »
And native nets above bonneville and commercial nets below bonneville are apples to oranges...
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Offline runamuk

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2012, 11:17:46 AM »
gotcha since you can read my mind and seem to know what I am thinking carry on with your fight....

one day my great grandchildren will either enjoy stories of how we once had fish and wild life or stories of how only the wealthy land barons get to hunt their private wildlife and fish...its all good cuz either way its gonna not be there for them :tup:

and if you really truly want to restore fish and it isn't about who gets the most..then you would get behind the removal of the dams which in the long run would be most beneficial to the fish but might kinda mess it up for the sportsmen....

so my voice will back the dam removals that way I am actually supporting the fish and not some user group....california can get their power from someone else
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 11:27:58 AM by runamuk »

Offline Curly

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2012, 11:34:29 AM »
I'm for removal of the Snake River dams.  Bonneville and the Dalles..........not so much.
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Offline Curly

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #98 on: October 19, 2012, 11:35:56 AM »
Easy way to help fish immediately though, is to remove sealions and gillnets. :twocents:

But getting permission to remove them is not easy.  Should be, but it isn't.......... :bash:
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Offline Huntbear

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #99 on: October 19, 2012, 11:41:47 AM »
I'm for removal of the Snake River dams.  Bonneville and the Dalles..........not so much.

They all have to be removed to be beneficial to the salmon.. again, it seems you guys are not for the fish, but for a larger allotment for sport fishermen...  What is the matter???? Do not want 600.00 electric bills????  Come on, it is for the Salmon...

And again, if you are not going after ALL the nets,  the commercial guys will still get my support.  At least they are working for a living, and creating a few jobs along the way.
Not saying, I get this share because I am born a certain race....  and I deserve it because my ancestors fished that river.... .


Gill nets are gill nets... does not matter if they belong to a Native or a Commercial Fisherman... they both kill indiscriminately, so there will be sturgeon and wild fish killed.. does not matter which net they are caught in.
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Offline Curly

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #100 on: October 19, 2012, 12:07:59 PM »
At least Bonneville, The Dalles and McNary have fish ladders.  Removal of the Snake River dams would help the Snake River fish.  One big problem with Bonneville is it makes easy pickings for sealions to dine on salmon, steelhead and sturgeon.........but I think it would be hard to justify breaching any of the Columbia River dams, mainly because of the flood control they provide.

Removal of commercial nets would help the fish.  Sure removal of all nets would help more, but removal of commercial nets would help greatly.  Got to start somewhere.........kind of hard to convince the natives to remove nets if we don't remove ours.
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Offline runamuk

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #101 on: October 19, 2012, 12:31:44 PM »
http://seattletimes.com/html/othersports/2016748747_outn13.html

Quote
State Fish and Wildlife is looking to make its cuts with a reduction of hatchery production.

Hatchery fish represent more than 75 percent of the fish caught in Washington.

Potential cuts include salmon production at the Stevens Creek Hatchery on the Humptulips River near Grays Harbor, eliminating all fall chinook production, and a 75 percent cut in coho (970,000 down to 240,000).

"We're looking at a volunteer cooperative that may be interested to help us with mass marking as well as a host of other different volunteer outreach activities," said Ron Warren, a state Fish and Wildlife fish program manager in Montesano.

"We've also continued talks with the Quinault Nation, and they've engaged us in trying to resolve this," Warren added. "None of us want to make these cuts, so we're doing everything we can to make those options actually happen."

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/release.php?id=nov0609a

Quote
Key provisions of the new policy, available on the commission’s website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission, call on the department to:

    Increasingly focus state commercial and recreational fisheries on the harvest of abundant hatchery stocks to support sustainable fisheries and reduce the number of hatchery fish spawning in rivers.
    Develop and promote alternative fishing gear to maximize the catch of hatchery-origin fish with minimal mortality to native salmon and steelhead.
Quote
The policy adopted by the commission also directs WDFW to seek necessary funding "from all potential sources" to implement these hatchery-reform measures, expand selective fisheries and ensure state facilities comply with standards for fish passage, water-intake screening and pollution control.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/policies/c3619.html

Quote
     Seek funding from all potential sources to implement hatchery reform and selective fisheries.
    Define "full implementation" of state-managed mark selective recreational and commercial fisheries and develop an implementation schedule.
    Work with tribal co-managers to establish network of Wild Salmonid Management Zones (WSMZ)1 across the state where wild stocks are largely protected from the effects of same species hatchery programs. The Department will have a goal of establishing at least one WSMZ for each species in each major population group (bio-geographical region, strata) in each ESU/DPS. Each stock selected for inclusion in the WSMZ must be sufficiently abundant and productive to be self-sustaining in the future. Fisheries can be conducted in WSMZ if wild stock management objectives are met as well as any necessary federal ESA determinations are received.

1 Wild Salmonid Management Zone is equal in meaning and application to the term of ‘Wild Stock Gene Bank’ as used and defined in the Statewide Steelhead Management Plan.

http://www.fws.gov/gorgefish/littlewhite/index.cfm

Quote
Reimbursable funds from other agencies accounted for a majority of the operational budget at the Little White Salmon/Willard National Fish Hatchery Complex with most of these funds (46.3% in fiscal year 2009) coming from NOAA - Fisheries Mitchell Act appropriation. These funds reimburse the operating agencies (in this case the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service) for fish production to mitigate for fish losses associated with the operation of hydroelectric dams on the Columbia River.

http://nwifc.org/2012/06/nwifc-magazine-tribes-keep-hatchery-programs-running/

Quote
Treaty tribes in western Washington are assuming additional fisheries enhancement responsibilities to preserve hatchery programs in danger of closing because of cuts to the state budget.

there spent 20 minutes looking for information, this isnt all the info I had at one time but much of it is similar.....if you are interested in fish and the rivers and hydro electic and how it relates to hatcheries you will read all the articles in full and check out the many links and maybe even go look for more data to decide for yourself. 

either this is about saving fish or its about opportunity and who isn't getting what they are entitled to, kinda simple as that in my mind.

Offline WSU

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #102 on: October 19, 2012, 12:37:45 PM »
I'm for removal of the Snake River dams.  Bonneville and the Dalles..........not so much.

They all have to be removed to be beneficial to the salmon.. again, it seems you guys are not for the fish, but for a larger allotment for sport fishermen...  What is the matter???? Do not want 600.00 electric bills????  Come on, it is for the Salmon...

And again, if you are not going after ALL the nets,  the commercial guys will still get my support.  At least they are working for a living, and creating a few jobs along the way.
Not saying, I get this share because I am born a certain race....  and I deserve it because my ancestors fished that river.... .


Gill nets are gill nets... does not matter if they belong to a Native or a Commercial Fisherman... they both kill indiscriminately, so there will be sturgeon and wild fish killed.. does not matter which net they are caught in.

Oh my.  Where to start.  First, as discussed at length above, your analysis of the netting issue is flat wrong.  I can tell you aren't going to get that tribal nets and non-tribal nets present different issues and will stop beating my head against the brick wall.

Second, your analysis of the dams issue is totally wrong.  The 4 lower snake river dams don't produce much power and your power bill won't change much, if at all, if they are breached.  We spend more tax payer dollars per year maintaining those dams than they produce in energy.  Their purpose is almost solely to facilitate barge traffic.  They provide no flood control, almost no irrigation, and very little power.  No scientist has said that all FCRPS (Federal Columbia River Power System) dams need to be removed for Snake River runs to receive a huge benefit, and almost unanimously agree that breaching those 4 dams would provide our greatest bang for our buck for salmon recovery. 

Offline bobcat

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #103 on: October 19, 2012, 12:46:05 PM »
Don't we have biologists to figure all this stuff out?

This is a rather complicated issue, I think I'll leave it up to those who are educated on the subject and those who have or are doing the research.

So what do the biologists say?

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: End commercial gillnetting on the Columbia River. Need your help
« Reply #104 on: October 19, 2012, 12:49:50 PM »
Don't we have biologists to figure all this stuff out?

This is a rather complicated issue, I think I'll leave it up to those who are educated on the subject and those who have or are doing the research.

So what do the biologists say?
Like the bios that recommend how great wolves are or that we are overharvesting cougars?

I talked to the bios at one of the hatcheries and the head bio said they only manage to get 16 pairs of coho (if memory serves me correct) to return to the hatchery trap.  Said that was all they need to produce the number of fry needed to sustain the run to meet projected take in the open ocean, local marine waters and nets.  As long as they got their 16 pairs of coho past the indian gill nets the bios were happy and the excess in the river were available for sport anglers in the river and river nourishment projects for conservation.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 12:55:23 PM by JimmyHoffa »

 


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