Bump'un and Nile Muzzy hunters

[deerslyr]

Deerslyr why is your need with archers.  Do you have any understanding how the season setting process works?  No offense but it appears that you don't.  I thought I did a good job of doing that. Maybe I was confusing in what I wrote. If so I appologize and I can try again.  Your angst toward the archery season truly baffles me.  Muzzle Loaders have more GMUs open to hunt. Cow tags are easy to draw. (1 every 2-3 years) and the success ratio is the same for muzzle loaders and bow hunters.  And for branch bull tags your success ratio is 3 times higher.  The timing of your season is also during a really good time. Elk during the first week of october are just as easily called in as during early september.  This attitude that the muzzle loaders in Yakima are slighted really does baffle me.  Now if you were referring to western washington then I would heartily agree. Western Washington front stuffers get screwed.

I have no angst with archers as I AM ONE. I switched from muzzy to archery years ago for all of these reasons. All lee was trying to say was if the herd is healthy enough in the bumping and nile to open for antlerless or cow for archery then muzzleloaders should get more cow tags than they do. I really have no idea how you can get my message so twisted? Whats so hard to understand? You keep bringin up how muzzleloaders have more areas open. READ THE TOPIC TITLE. Were talking about the bumping and the nile not the entire yakima area. Whats so hard about understanding that muzzy hunters want some more cow tags if archers are getting OTC antlerless opportunities?

[bobcat]

To say you should switch weapons if you don't like the season is a bit hard for me to swallow, I shouldn't have to and I think it promotes people who don't have the skills to shoot a bow with confidence {like myself} to do more harm then good.

I've been hunting with a muzzleloader since 1985, so I'm aware of how much has been lost. And I would say if for some reason you can't learn to shoot a bow, then hunt the rifle season (if you don't like the muzz. season).

All I'm trying to say is we all have the same options every year. If you think the option you have chosen has gotten the short end of the stick, then maybe you need to choose one of the other options.

[logger]

To say you should switch weapons if you don't like the season is a bit hard for me to swallow, I shouldn't have to and I think it promotes people who don't have the skills to shoot a bow with confidence {like myself} to do more harm then good.

I've been hunting with a muzzleloader since 1985, so I'm aware of how much has been lost. And I would say if for some reason you can't learn to shoot a bow, then hunt the rifle season (if you don't like the muzz. season).

All I'm trying to say is we all have the same options every year. If you think the option you have chosen has gotten the short end of the stick, then maybe you need to choose one of the other options.

I get what your saying and I'm sure there are some that do, it's just not for me. It's not that I can't learn to shoot a bow, it's I shouldn't have to, I would quit hunting before I went rifle hunting and as you would say thats my choice and I agree with that. Even the westside units are mostly sub par, there ok if shooting a elk in a farmers field is your thing but thats not for me. oppurtunity is going away at a super fast rate for muzzle loaders and in my opinion it needs to be sqaured up a bit. Hell I live in what once was a any elk unit for everybody,thank god they changed that, those pour elk would get hammered if the weather was right,and oh yes there were plenty of guys shooting a muzzleloader that had no bussiness with one, lottsa wounded animals at times. I actually felt sorry for those animals they would run by you with their tounges draggin. I am not 100 % sure of my thinking, but maybe cows should be permit only for everybody. like I said I don't follow the bow season so maybe I am screwed up in my thought proccess, wouldn't be the first time.

[lee]

Archery hunters lose 6 days of are late season this year in the 300 GMU's if you guys didn't notice.

Sir,

Please go back and read my 2 posts.

I started this post specifically concern'un the Bump'un and Nile units.

If you want to start a post complain'un 'bout how you Arrow Throwers are be'un treated in the 300 GMU's please do so, ...... IN YER OWN THREAD not mine. Geeze.

[D-Rock425]

Sorry for thread jacking but your thread was jacked way before i made that comment.   

[colockumelk]

To try and say muzzleloaders dont get the short end of the stick is absurd. They get the shortest season, less units, the units they get are typically less productive (on the west side any ways), least amount of tags, and over all less opportunity

Yes the original poster did say only bumping and Nile. You however brought in other units to make your point. My rebuttal stems from this.  You said they have less units. This is not true in the Yakima units! And they have a shorter season because it takes less time to reach their "quota" than archers. 4 times quicker to he exact!

[WSU]

Im starting to lobby tbe commission on equanamity between ml and ar. Compared to ml, ar is much more liberal and generous across the state. When i started ml we had an 11 day season and much more opps for antlerless and more gmus. Now were down to 7 days and spike onlys, while ar sits on a 15 day season and 3 pt or antlerless in numerous elk rich units denied to ml. This disparity in opps  to me is no longer tolerable or justified.  When ar's now brag about harvesting animals at 70yds and are taking shots out to 100 well, its obvious that the technology has now reached a par with ml. My proposals will be to restrict ar to the same lenght of hunts as ml and to give ml the exact same gmus and harvest opps as current ar seasons. My proposals will also involve shortening the mod season to a 7 day hunt only. We ml pay the same money and we are now demanding the same opportunities.

I hunt with both weapons and can tell you it is about 50 times easier to kill something with a muzzy.  Archery equipment is absolutely not on par with muzzy equipment.

[colockumelk]

 

washelkhunter with all due respect do you have any understanding of how and why the season setting process / permit system in regards to numbers of permits works?  If you did you would understand why ML's have a 7 day season and why bow hunters have a much longer season.  I have explained this time and time again.  I will do so again and keep it short.  Each user groups is alloted a certain number of animals a "quota" if you will.  This is based upon the population numbers that each user group has.  It takes 7 days on average for muzzle loaders to achieve their "quota" which correlates to about a 7% success rate.  For archers to achieve their quota which also correlates to about 7% it takes much much longer.  About 4 times longer.  This is because it is much more difficult to get within lethal range and get off a shot with a bow than a muzzle loader.  I hunt with both.  Archery is much more difficult.  For branch bull hunting (which I have never done myself but I've called for others) is much easier with a muzzle loader.  I can get a shooter within 150yds from a herd and pull out a herd bull to at least look at us all day long.  But to sneak within 50yds of a herd and get this bull to leave his herd to take a peak oh and make sure he is broad side or quartering away and be able for the bow hunter to draw his bow back without being seen and sneak a shot through the maze of branches that are always there is much more difficult. 

My party went 5 for 5 in 3 days (2 spikes and 3 cows) this year with a muzzle loader.  All in an area that we had never set foot in before.  With a bow this same party is lucky to get 1 elk in an entire 2 week season.  And no I am not trying to thump my chest and start a "who is a better hunter" argument.  Like I said i hunt with both and love shooting my smoke pole as well as my compound bow.  To be lethal with my bow out to 50yds takes an entire summers worth of tuning and practise and my groups are still only 4-5".  For my muzzle loader I can go out the weekend before and in one shooting session I have 2-3" groups at 100yds.  Two more sessions and I have 5" groups out to 150yds.  I can assure you (because I hunt with both weapons) that the technology has not caught up with muzzle loaders.  Until they desing a bow that you don't have to draw back or can draw back and hold for an indefinate period of time (ie 100% let off) and flings arrows at 2,000 fps and can shoot 4-5" groups at 150 yds and be lethal out to 200-250yds then bow technology will not have caught up to muzzle loaders. 

Again I hunted muzzle loader this year.  I grew up hunting with muzzle loaders.  I wont be able to make the 2013 season.  Hopefully I can make the 2014 season and draw a branch bull tag.  If I do it will be with a smoke pole.  Why?  Because the branch bull success rate with a muzzle loader in the Yakima GMU's are 3 times higher than with a bow.  And between my brother's calling ability and my own I doubt I will eat that tag.     My  based off of my personal experiences in the woods both with a bow and a muzzle loader. 

[bobcat]

Yes the original poster did say only bumping and Nile.

Colockumelk,   Didn't you mean to say the Bump'un unit?   

[colockumelk]

 

[lee]

Yes the original poster did say only bumping and Nile.

Colockumelk,   Didn't you mean to say the Bump'un unit?   

           

Sorry, I type like I talk, .... in the Alabama Redneck'eze dialect.   

[washelkhunter]

So i just sent this off to the Commission for their consideration.  If anyone would like to copy, sign and forward to them at: wildthing@dfw.wa.gov   please do. I would appreciate it greatly.   



Dear Commissioners.
 
As a long time avid Muzzleloading hunter in the state of Washington I would like to see the rule change of last year that allowed archery equipment during ML season rescinded. We ML hunters feel that this is nothing more than a backdoor opportunity for archery hunters to encroach on our season. The argument I received (Mr. Ware), for the allowance of this change was that some ML hunters perhaps wanted the opportunity to hunt with their bows. I found this to be ludicrous and frankly unbelievable. I have been ML hunting for 20 plus years now in Wa. and not once in that entire time have I ever lamented the fact that I could'nt jump on my bow. Nor have I ever heard such a desire from another ML hunter.
 
I see a proposal for AR to have the opportunity for antlerless harvest in gmu's 352/356. If you are going to allow this than I want to see the same for the general ML season. We ML hunters have been getting the short end of the stick for far too long. I
also want to see ML hunters allowed 3pt or antlerless in gmu's 550, 560 and 346. We also desire the return of the late hunt; mid Nov; for 4 days in gmu 346 for spike or antlerless. We would also desire to see the AR season shortened to the same number of days as the ML season; or the ML season returned to its 11 day season of old. The overarching need for parity with the AR season has become apparent due to the huge technical advancements in what passes for AR today. Archers are now shooting out to 70 yards and beyond and harvesting animals at these ranges, as well as wounding more. We ML's pay the same amount of money to hunt as all other user groups in this state and we demand the same opportunities in the same "elk rich units" that the others currently enjoy. These spike only hunts in the general season of ML have become a bad joke. I personally hunt hard and have gone years without seeing a spike in the field during the season. The lack of opportunity clearly has become abusive for ML hunters.  We look forward to seeing new opportunities, gmu's and easing of restrictions on ML's in the near (2013) future.
 
Thank you for your conscientious consideration.

[RG]

Im starting to lobby tbe commission on equanamity between ml and ar. Compared to ml, ar is much more liberal and generous across the state. When i started ml we had an 11 day season and much more opps for antlerless and more gmus. Now were down to 7 days and spike onlys, while ar sits on a 15 day season and 3 pt or antlerless in numerous elk rich units denied to ml. This disparity in opps  to me is no longer tolerable or justified.  When ar's now brag about harvesting animals at 70yds and are taking shots out to 100 well, its obvious that the technology has now reached a par with ml. My proposals will be to restrict ar to the same lenght of hunts as ml and to give ml the exact same gmus and harvest opps as current ar seasons. My proposals will also involve shortening the mod season to a 7 day hunt only. We ml pay the same money and we are now demanding the same opportunities.

Yeah, these 200 yard bows make them just as effective as muzzleloaders.  When I started it was recurves and traditional muzzleloaders too.  What happened?  Everybody wants a shortcut, take the challenge out of it.  I've hunted with every weapon, I'm now a blackpowder hunter, but before you start campaigning to make archery equal to muzzleloader try bowhunting for a few years then come back and say it's equal, no more difficult to harvest an animal with.  If your argument is true that bowhunters have a much better deal than everybody else I'm surprised you aren't buying a bow.  Of course it is a good topic to argue about since there aren't too many hunting seasons open right now and we're bored.

[washelkhunter]

I hunt with a martin x-200 recurve. Just sayin.

[RG]

I hunt with a martin x-200 recurve. Just sayin.

Then, if you hunt with a bow, your argument which includes the line "when I started ML we had an 11 day season...", is pointless because, if you are an archery hunter you are trying to limit your own opportunities and you already understand what I said above.  I'm not sure why you care if muzzleloader gets the same opportunity as archery then.  It sounds more like you are actually primarily a blackpowder hunter who owns a bow.  I'd like longer muzzleloader seasons too but I sure don't think I'd trash bowhunters to get it.