Intro to gunfire/ gun shyness prevention.

[Stilly bay]

There is a lot of misinformation floating around about introducing a pup to gunfire. I have lost count of how many times I have read casual suggestions of " leave the pup in the back of your truck and go to the shooting range" or "blast a 12 gauge round over his head while he isn't paying attention"... more often than not a young pup doesn't fear the gun despite of this stupid practice.
as simple as intro to gunfire can be it will affect your dog for the rest of its life in one way or another.  getting a dog through gun shyness is no easy task and every one involved would be a lot better in the long run if dogs were started off right to begin with. however sometimes it can't be avoided; my gordon setter was hit by a truck at age Three; he was horribly gun shy for awhile even though he had a proper gun introduction when he was a pup and had hundreds of birds shot over him before his accident, but we worked through it. I really believe for many dogs there are ways to get around or through being noise sensitive.

I would like to hear everyone's take on proper introduction to gunfire, do's and don'ts it might help out some new bird dog owners and keep some pups from being fearful. I would also like to hear some gun shyness success or horror stories, maybe there are some solutions out there for some pups needing a second chance.

[hollymaster]

I start with banging a pot or pan a room over while they eat and slowly work closer till I'm banging it over there head with out any flinching. Then move to the back of the truck with the .22 then the shotguns.

[Shannon]

I start with caps then .22 blanks then a .410 then 12 gauge shots while they are eating as pups. Then in the field while they are chasing planted birds I shoot a blank .22 and repeat over a few days until I'm gradually up to a 12 gauge. Never had any problems with these methods.

[Happy Gilmore]

When they like birds it's time to make noise at distance. I never understood banging pots and pans over meal time and how that is supposed to get a dog to associate gun fire with feathers which equals fun to the dogs.

[hillbilli]

when mine was a pup I went out one day with a friend, and with one of us having her on a leash, the other would fire a .22 the other way when she was 10-20yds up the trail.. the first couple times she flipped out, and we convinced her it was fine.. within an hour she paid no attention to the gun.. then i broke out the 9mm.. she freaked the first couple times, we convinced her it was fine, and within 20 minute she was ok with it.. by the end of the day I could shoot off the .308's and she didnt seem to care.. that was my method, and it worked with her.. she's up in years now, and she's a malamute cross, not a lab, but I think the method is sound.. I suppose a cap gun or blanks would work, but I just used what i had..

[Stilly bay]

When they like birds it's time to make noise at distance. I never understood banging pots and pans over meal time and how that is supposed to get a dog to associate gun fire with feathers which equals fun to the dogs.

I agree one hundred and ten percent, but for the sake of argument lets say someone with a pup has no birds available to use - for what ever reason- would this be a good alternative? It certainly has been suggested a thousand times over in rehashed birddog magazines and dog training books.
is banging pots and pans during feeding time just creating a pavlovian response? I did this with a few of my dogs and they sure did get excited for dinner when I started clanging pans... or are pups avoiding noise sensitivity despite his owner banging pans and slamming cupboards at feeding time? or does it really work?

[jetjockey]

When they like birds it's time to make noise at distance. I never understood banging pots and pans over meal time and how that is supposed to get a dog to associate gun fire with feathers which equals fun to the dogs.

I agree 100%!  If its going to be a bird dog, eventually it will need birds.  The easiest way IMO is to let the dog have a find, flush the bird, and fire a muffled blank pistol as the dog gives chase and gets a ways from the pistol.  The "shot" should be loud enough for the dog to hear but quiet enough that it doesn't care because it has the bird flying away on its mind.   

For something that is really pretty easy, it seems a lot of people make it more difficult than it needs to be.  This is one of those times fitting for KISS.

[Happy Gilmore]

The pots and pan thing was described in one dog training book by an author who wasn't a dog trainer. I introduce pups to a .22 blank at 100 yards. I only move closer if the pup shows no sign of spookyness or fear. I only use birds. I want the first bang associated with feathers. I suppose you could use a tennis ball if you had the bandana tied around your Golden retrievers neck?

[wildweeds]

It's all about birds,birds birds birds,Wing clipped LIVE pigeons,Two people and a shotgun,You jack the pup/dog up with the bird you toss it in the air and the dog chases it down,as the dog is just getting about getting to the bird,the helper/gunner shoots the shotgun in the air 180 degrees away from the action from 50 yards or so away.

You do bird intro first and when the dog is jacked about birds you add the gun to the mix.I despise the blank gun makes a "Krack" Rather than a "Boom",I use a .410 and use muzzle direction and yardage to set the loudness factor.

[hollymaster]

For me, firing a gun around isn't a daily option.

[wildweeds]

I agree one hundred and ten percent, but for the sake of argument lets say someone with a pup has no birds available to use - for what ever reason-

The biggest reason someone wouldn't have any birds is human laziness,in either the legwork to find a person that had birds for sale,craigslist and such,or contacting a professional trainer that has birds for some rental time on birds and time to help.Most dog trainers would rather make very little money helping someone acclimate a dog to the gun properly than try to fix the gunshy that ensues from improper tactics.

The Fellow in Acme with the  shooting preserve does gun intro for a  reasonable price,All a person has to do is show up with a dog.

[Stilly bay]

I agree one hundred and ten percent, but for the sake of argument lets say someone with a pup has no birds available to use - for what ever reason-

The biggest reason someone wouldn't have any birds is human laziness,in either the legwork to find a person that had birds for sale,craigslist and such,or contacting a professional trainer that has birds for some rental time on birds and time to help.

no doubt it takes birds to make a bird dog.
ideally if your getting a bird dog - be it retriever or pointer- it would really behoove you to have some birds lined up somewhere for training purposes. in reality I don't think that happens nearly as much as it should and people are always putting the cart before the horse or in this case the dog before the birds. how many times on this site alone have you seen posts where people have a dog already, but they are scrambling for training birds? like health clearances, pedigrees, and titles the average new dog owner doesn't give training birds the slightest consideration before buying a dog.
too many people make do with bird wings ( not a proper substitution beyond small puppies IMO) or just wait until hunting season for bird exposure. and if a dog is old enough to hunt it is already way past due for an intro to gunfire.

Sooo for the sake of argument: Peter procrastinator has a growing pup, but he has no birds, no where to keep birds, and doesn't even know where to find them in the first place... he doesn't have the money to seek a trainers  help since he just bought a bargain dog and is in and out of the vet constantly...what would be a good way to ready a dog for gunfire?

[wildweeds]

No shortcut around birds PERIOD!The only shortcut I see possibly that will have it's own set of repercussions is "Free" worn out laying chickens.Although introduction to gunfire is a relatively short process,maybe 3 outings at the most if the dog is "Birdy".I'm not real sure but 50 bucks a session with a pro sounds reasonable to me,money for the land time and a few homers/feral birds.

As a side note I know a little fellow in moses lake who has emailed me with feral pigeons he has been trapping and has for sale.Asking questions on a board such as this one can net a person a few birds here and there,perhaps relatively close in geographic location.

I do not have a problem with helping someone gun intro a dog for nothing as gun shyness ticks me off to no end because as allready mentioned is 99% the owners fault.,you have to want to do it right and doing gun intro right is the easiest part of training a dog IMO.

Perhaps the question on the other thread about "First time dog owners breeder questions" should have a section that includes preparing for X amount of birds for gun intro.

[AspenBud]

It doesn't cost much or require a lot of space to build a small coop with a two or three homing pigeons in it. The birds are reuseable and guys who raise them often need to cull a few which means giving some away or selling them for 3-6 bucks a piece.

[Bluemoon]

I don't know if I like this post, because I have to agree with Wildweeds, Jet Jockey, Stilly and Happy.    IMO you guys are spot on!!!  I just came in from introducing puppies to birds and gunfire today..For those reading this you can learn a lot from listening to those mentioned above..