March 27 Colville wolf meeting

[whacker1]

Skywalker I kind of see what you are saying, but does a Rancher not have a financial stake as well as an outfitter.
I think all should be heard regardless of their interest. Some are just better speakers and get their point across better. 

Care to elaborate BearPaw?

I agree with you. I understand what you are saying about Ranchers having a finacial stake. The difference IMO; Ranches are usually handed down from family generation to family generation, as a means of making a living. Their are strong family traditions associated with that. If wolves start killing off their means of making a living, then the wolves should be killed. You cannot just pick up your ranch, family traditions, etc. and move it. I think most listening would understand their point of view, and at least listen.

When a hunter or outfitter speaks it is not going to be as well received. A) Those listening are aganist hunting, hunters, their views, etc. to begin with B) An outfitter is taking advantage of a resource to make money. Whether that be hunting videos, TV shows, guide service, etc. I could see how an anti-hunter/pro-wolf individual would dismiss their credibility from the start. They are coming in pissed off, and likely not going to listen. My point is; choose the path of least resistence; work smart. Bearpaw presenting is not going to capture an audience and get anyone to listen. Perhaps Bearpaw take his information, facts, etc. and turn it over to somebody, who stands on neutral ground.

Skywalker.... I get the feeling you have not participated in these sorts of meetings before.  The cattelman are probably first in line or maybe second in line as the most outspoken groups on this issue Nationwide.  They speak plenty to this issue.  As do hunters, outfitters, local businesses that support hunters.    The point of this conversation is that it is falling on deaf ears.  Either the rank and file WDFW employees feel they can't make a difference, don't care to engage and make a difference, or are the problem themselves. 

The department seems to be taking the wolf issue like any new beauracracy.  Reinvent the wheel, starting with rectangle,  sand off the rough spots, and let it lump along awkwardly, until you lose a bearing and then sand some more and hope the wheel turns, and when the wheel finally comes off, then we can engage when it is too late.  beauracracies rarely learn from other jursidictions mistakes, and start from scratch with their heads in the clouds.....seems to be the same path.

[bobcat]

Otherwise all these meetings are USELESS!! Clearly based off the posts I have read; last nights Colville meeting was just that....USELESS!!

And I agree with this. What is the point of having all these meetings? Just so the WDFW can listen to Bearpaw say the same things they've already heard a thousand times before?

And so people can listen to the WDFW talk about all the things we already know?

Waste of time and money, I say.

Dale, do you know what the purpose of the meeting was?

[Curly]

Skywalker I kind of see what you are saying, but does a Rancher not have a financial stake as well as an outfitter.
I think all should be heard regardless of their interest. Some are just better speakers and get their point across better. 

Care to elaborate BearPaw?

I agree with you. I understand what you are saying about Ranchers having a finacial stake. The difference IMO; Ranches are usually handed down from family generation to family generation, as a means of making a living. Their are strong family traditions associated with that. If wolves start killing off their means of making a living, then the wolves should be killed. You cannot just pick up your ranch, family traditions, etc. and move it. I think most listening would understand their point of view, and at least listen.

When a hunter or outfitter speaks it is not going to be as well received. A) Those listening are aganist hunting, hunters, their views, etc. to begin with B) An outfitter is taking advantage of a resource to make money. Whether that be hunting videos, TV shows, guide service, etc. I could see how an anti-hunter/pro-wolf individual would dismiss their credibility from the start. They are coming in pissed off, and likely not going to listen. My point is; choose the path of least resistence; work smart. Bearpaw presenting is not going to capture an audience and get anyone to listen. Perhaps Bearpaw take his information, facts, etc. and turn it over to somebody, who stands on neutral ground.

I don't agree with you at all.
Hunters and guides and outfitters should either  keep their mouths shut or get a puppet to speak for them and we should let the wolf lovers speak out at will because WDFW is more likely to listen?
Come on, man. Get realistic.

We need anyone who is well spoken to get up and speak when WDFW gives the opportunity to give input like at this meeting.  I applaud Bearpaw and the others for standing up and giving WDFW a piece of their mind. 

[Curly]

WDFW needs to feel the heat from us.  They need to know how unhappy we are with their wolf plan.  They never should have come up with that plan and the commission never should have approved it.  We need to keep reminding them of how wrong we think they were/are.

[Buckblaster]

I think the main reason WDFW held the meeting was because our local legislators asked them to.  It may have been just a political ploy to appease the law makers so WDFW's budget doesn't take a hit in this legislative session.

[bobcat]

WDFW needs to feel the heat from us.  They need to know how unhappy we are with their wolf plan.  They never should have come up with that plan and the commission never should have approved it.  We need to keep reminding them of how wrong we think they were/are.

Well said. I can agree with that. I just don't think it helps to try to discredit their biologists with every single thing they say.

If the cow wasn't a wolf kill, let's be glad for that, and accept it.

This is not the conspiracy that many seem to think it is.

[Curly]

Dale, do you know what the purpose of the meeting was?

According to the press release, it seems that WDFW had the meeting to try to downplay the effect of wolves on wild game populations.  I wonder how successful they were in convincing their audience.  Likely not very successful...........

[Curly]

WDFW needs to feel the heat from us.  They need to know how unhappy we are with their wolf plan.  They never should have come up with that plan and the commission never should have approved it.  We need to keep reminding them of how wrong we think they were/are.

Well said. I can agree with that. I just don't think it helps to try to discredit their biologists with every single thing they say.

If the cow wasn't a wolf kill, let's be glad for that, and accept it.

This is not the conspiracy that many seem to think it is.

Well, WDFW has lost credibility........that is obvious.  If they get caught in just one lie, then everything else they do is going to be suspect.  And you can't really blame people for not trusting the bio 100% since there were wolves observed several hundred yards away during the investigation.  (It sure would be nice to hear what the rancher's opinion is on what the cause of death is of the cow).

[bobcat]

I said BOTH sides of the issue need a mediator to help them find common ground. I never said just let the Pro Wolf people speak and everyone else tuck tail and shut up. Appartently you are not very educated on how many political debates, dissolution of marriages, etc. work. They use MEDIATORS to make progress, because neither side is going to change their point of view or agree.

I think in this situation, the WDFW is the mediator.

[Curly]

Bearpaw's view is not narrow minded.  I've read much of his research on the wolf issue and he knows his stuff.......(knows the stats and info better than WDFW).

The pro-wolf crowd are the narrow minded ones.  They want to end hunting and replace us with wolves. 

[huntnphool]

Skywalker I kind of see what you are saying, but does a Rancher not have a financial stake as well as an outfitter.
I think all should be heard regardless of their interest. Some are just better speakers and get their point across better. 

Care to elaborate BearPaw?

I agree with you. I understand what you are saying about Ranchers having a finacial stake. The difference IMO; Ranches are usually handed down from family generation to family generation, as a means of making a living. Their are strong family traditions associated with that. If wolves start killing off their means of making a living, then the wolves should be killed. You cannot just pick up your ranch, family traditions, etc. and move it. I think most listening would understand their point of view, and at least listen.

When a hunter or outfitter speaks it is not going to be as well received. A) Those listening are aganist hunting, hunters, their views, etc. to begin with B) An outfitter is taking advantage of a resource to make money. Whether that be hunting videos, TV shows, guide service, etc. I could see how an anti-hunter/pro-wolf individual would dismiss their credibility from the start. They are coming in pissed off, and likely not going to listen. My point is; choose the path of least resistence; work smart. Bearpaw presenting is not going to capture an audience and get anyone to listen. Perhaps Bearpaw take his information, facts, etc. and turn it over to somebody, who stands on neutral ground.

I don't agree with you at all.
Hunters and guides and outfitters should either  keep their mouths shut or get a puppet to speak for them and we should let the wolf lovers speak out at will because WDFW is more likely to listen?
Come on, man. Get realistic.

We need anyone who is well spoken to get up and speak when WDFW gives the opportunity to give input like at this meeting.  I applaud Bearpaw and the others for standing up and giving WDFW a piece of their mind. 

That the problem. "standing up and giving someone a piece of their mind" and coming from a narrow minded view is not going to go over well and change anyones opinions on the issue. Especially coming from a hunter or outfitter.

Now Dale is narrow minded as well.

[huntnphool]

I said BOTH sides of the issue need a mediator to help them find common ground. I never said just let the Pro Wolf people speak and everyone else tuck tail and shut up. Appartently you are not very educated on how many political debates, dissolution of marriages, etc. work. They use MEDIATORS to make progress, because neither side is going to change their point of view or agree.

I think in this situation, the WDFW is the mediator.

Then people like Bearpaw are pretty much screwed. The only suggestion would be to ban everyone together and sit a year or two out from hunting, fishing, etc. Do not purchase anything the WDFW offers. Once they feel it in their pocket book, they will be forced to listen and change the wolf plan. In the meantime it is all USELESS talk and predictible views of everyone involved. In other words, these meetings are being held to show effort on the WDFW part; nothing more....

Perhaps it's you that is not well educated in politics Sky, Dale represents potentially thousands of voters........which in this case should very well demand their attention.

[bobcat]

The reason the WDFW is like a mediator in this issue, is that they in fact are just the middleman, between the USFWS and the citizens of the state of Washington.

[huntnphool]

Skywalker I kind of see what you are saying, but does a Rancher not have a financial stake as well as an outfitter.
I think all should be heard regardless of their interest. Some are just better speakers and get their point across better. 

Care to elaborate BearPaw?

I agree with you. I understand what you are saying about Ranchers having a finacial stake. The difference IMO; Ranches are usually handed down from family generation to family generation, as a means of making a living. Their are strong family traditions associated with that. If wolves start killing off their means of making a living, then the wolves should be killed. You cannot just pick up your ranch, family traditions, etc. and move it. I think most listening would understand their point of view, and at least listen.

When a hunter or outfitter speaks it is not going to be as well received. A) Those listening are aganist hunting, hunters, their views, etc. to begin with B) An outfitter is taking advantage of a resource to make money. Whether that be hunting videos, TV shows, guide service, etc. I could see how an anti-hunter/pro-wolf individual would dismiss their credibility from the start. They are coming in pissed off, and likely not going to listen. My point is; choose the path of least resistence; work smart. Bearpaw presenting is not going to capture an audience and get anyone to listen. Perhaps Bearpaw take his information, facts, etc. and turn it over to somebody, who stands on neutral ground.

I don't agree with you at all.
Hunters and guides and outfitters should either  keep their mouths shut or get a puppet to speak for them and we should let the wolf lovers speak out at will because WDFW is more likely to listen?
Come on, man. Get realistic.

We need anyone who is well spoken to get up and speak when WDFW gives the opportunity to give input like at this meeting.  I applaud Bearpaw and the others for standing up and giving WDFW a piece of their mind. 

That the problem. "standing up and giving someone a piece of their mind" and coming from a narrow minded view is not going to go over well and change anyones opinions on the issue. Especially coming from a hunter or outfitter.

Now Dale is narrow minded as well.

Since you seem to know everything, and have develped a bad reputation of being a "know it all" on this site. Tell us how YOUR presentation in Colville went last night....

Let me guess; you were not in attendance and behind your computer telling everyone how much more you know then them again.

I stand behind Dale 100% and am quite sure they count me as one of those potential voters.

[jackelope]

I said BOTH sides of the issue need a mediator to help them find common ground. I never said just let the Pro Wolf people speak and everyone else tuck tail and shut up. Appartently you are not very educated on how many political debates, dissolution of marriages, etc. work. They use MEDIATORS to make progress, because neither side is going to change their point of view or agree.

I think in this situation, the WDFW is the mediator.

You're right. I have zero personal experience with running political debates. Nor do I have any experience in the dissolution of marriage thankfully.  I  do know when Dale speaks, it is well thought out and not just some redneck huntin guide spewing the word of the anti-wolf crowd. He puts a lot of thought into his word. I'd rather have him or a few other guys from here talk than someone else. That I do know. He is in the thick of it. The wolves are literally in his backyard.