Free: Contests & Raffles.
I'll say it again, the least of our worries is in the courtroom. The lawsuits would be won easily. What you should fear is the ballot box and citizen's initiatives.
We need a new law that says voters have no say in wildlife management decisions.
Quote from: 6x6in6 on March 31, 2013, 08:47:09 PMQuote from: wolfbait on March 31, 2013, 08:39:25 PMQuote from: bobcat on March 31, 2013, 02:00:59 PMQuote from: Gringo31 on March 31, 2013, 01:33:33 PMThose of you that have faith in this process......just wait for how long it will take to actually delist. I'm talking about once the requirement has been made and they are actually delisted.I have faith the process will work similar to the way it worked in other states. When they first try to delist wolves there will be lawsuits by the wolf lovers. The state will spend millions of dollars fighting those lawsuits. Then maybe, after many years, they will be delisted. And who knows how many more years after that before there will be a hunting season for wolves. By that time there will be very few deer and elk left to hunt in this state, and hunting will be by draw only.I think we will delist a little sooner, but it really won't make any difference because WA will be so stuffed with wolves that they will be impossible to control in time to save the decimation of our wildlife. And then there is the lawsuits that will be filed. The legal battle and barrage of lawsuits will make ID and MT's battles seem puny.I'll say it again, the least of our worries is in the courtroom.
Quote from: wolfbait on March 31, 2013, 08:39:25 PMQuote from: bobcat on March 31, 2013, 02:00:59 PMQuote from: Gringo31 on March 31, 2013, 01:33:33 PMThose of you that have faith in this process......just wait for how long it will take to actually delist. I'm talking about once the requirement has been made and they are actually delisted.I have faith the process will work similar to the way it worked in other states. When they first try to delist wolves there will be lawsuits by the wolf lovers. The state will spend millions of dollars fighting those lawsuits. Then maybe, after many years, they will be delisted. And who knows how many more years after that before there will be a hunting season for wolves. By that time there will be very few deer and elk left to hunt in this state, and hunting will be by draw only.I think we will delist a little sooner, but it really won't make any difference because WA will be so stuffed with wolves that they will be impossible to control in time to save the decimation of our wildlife. And then there is the lawsuits that will be filed. The legal battle and barrage of lawsuits will make ID and MT's battles seem puny.
Quote from: bobcat on March 31, 2013, 02:00:59 PMQuote from: Gringo31 on March 31, 2013, 01:33:33 PMThose of you that have faith in this process......just wait for how long it will take to actually delist. I'm talking about once the requirement has been made and they are actually delisted.I have faith the process will work similar to the way it worked in other states. When they first try to delist wolves there will be lawsuits by the wolf lovers. The state will spend millions of dollars fighting those lawsuits. Then maybe, after many years, they will be delisted. And who knows how many more years after that before there will be a hunting season for wolves. By that time there will be very few deer and elk left to hunt in this state, and hunting will be by draw only.I think we will delist a little sooner, but it really won't make any difference because WA will be so stuffed with wolves that they will be impossible to control in time to save the decimation of our wildlife.
Quote from: Gringo31 on March 31, 2013, 01:33:33 PMThose of you that have faith in this process......just wait for how long it will take to actually delist. I'm talking about once the requirement has been made and they are actually delisted.I have faith the process will work similar to the way it worked in other states. When they first try to delist wolves there will be lawsuits by the wolf lovers. The state will spend millions of dollars fighting those lawsuits. Then maybe, after many years, they will be delisted. And who knows how many more years after that before there will be a hunting season for wolves. By that time there will be very few deer and elk left to hunt in this state, and hunting will be by draw only.
Those of you that have faith in this process......just wait for how long it will take to actually delist. I'm talking about once the requirement has been made and they are actually delisted.
All this talk about delisting, lawsuits, votes......We all know we have to get to the breeding pair head count and that head count has to do the successful tango for 3 years.Did you know that then, and only then, the WDFW will BEGIN the process of delisting? Sure, there is language that gives them there "can" and could" do so earlier but nothing rigid like "will". So how long do you think that will take, the delisting process? Go read the wolf plan and page 68 Delisting. Probably should also read the referenced WAC on page 68 of the plan. Yep, you got it. The Commission gets to ultimately say delist or not to delist. Isn't that just a nice warm fuzzy right there!Now, fast forward to page 70 of the wolf plan beginning with Section C. Management after DelistingSo, the WDFW finally got around to doing what they had to do on page 68, with the blessing of the Commission.Low and behold, now they don't have to call them a game animal after they have been delisted.Guess what? No game animal = no hunting season.That language on page 70 is their for a reason. So the WDFW can do what they see fit. Nothing more.Go look at the last sentence on page 70 and Section C. Potentially another plan for managing wolves after delisting? And there goes the anchor out again, slowing down the process some more. You don't think they won't use this one also to slow the process down? Right..............Folks, mark my words, the wolf will not be managed as a game animal in this state anytime soon (this present decade). Sure, they may be delisted. Big deal. Can't hunt them until that management plan is done, delisted or not.Here, wolf plan.......... http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00001/wdfw00001.pdfAnd the WAC referenced on page 68........ http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-297I made it simple for ya. Essentially, the meat and potatoes to get to hunting of wolves is contained on pages 68-71. If you read nothing else, familiarize yourself with these 4 pages.
WDFW can initiate a status review prior to achieving the3-year requirement for the recovery objectives. Review under the State Environmental Policy Act(SEPA) and public review are also required as part of the delisting process. Delisting is based onlyon the biological status of the species in Washington. Information from the status review is thenpresented to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission to make the final determination ondelisting. The Commission would not consider final action until after achieving the recoveryobjectives.If a year occurred where there were 18 successful breeding pairs of wolves and the distributioncriteria for delisting were met, then WDFW could begin the process to write a status review toprepare a delisting recommendation at that timeThis is right out of the wolf plan.My personal belief is that wolves will be delisted in three years. I certainly could be wrong.
WDFW can initiate a status review prior to achieving the3-year requirement for the recovery objectives. Review under the State Environmental Policy Act(SEPA) and public review are also required as part of the delisting process. Delisting is based onlyon the biological status of the species in Washington. Information from the status review is thenpresented to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission to make the final determination ondelisting. The Commission would not consider final action until after achieving the recoveryobjectives.If a year occurred where there were 18 successful breeding pairs of wolves and the distributioncriteria for delisting were met, then WDFW could begin the process to write a status review toprepare a delisting recommendation at that timeThis is right out of the wolf plan.My personal belief is that wolves will be delisted in three years. I certainly could be wrong.Edit: And, I will stand behind my prediction of no lawsuits filed. Why the heck would PETA or whoever file a lawsuit when they can go right to the ballot box?
Quote from: JLS on April 02, 2013, 03:35:14 PMWDFW can initiate a status review prior to achieving the3-year requirement for the recovery objectives. Review under the State Environmental Policy Act(SEPA) and public review are also required as part of the delisting process. Delisting is based onlyon the biological status of the species in Washington. Information from the status review is thenpresented to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission to make the final determination ondelisting. The Commission would not consider final action until after achieving the recoveryobjectives.If a year occurred where there were 18 successful breeding pairs of wolves and the distributioncriteria for delisting were met, then WDFW could begin the process to write a status review toprepare a delisting recommendation at that timeThis is right out of the wolf plan.My personal belief is that wolves will be delisted in three years. I certainly could be wrong.Did you miss the "can" and "could" JLS?Did you see that the Commission gets to make a final determination?Do you think the Commission will actually vary from their own recommended wolf plan and approve a status review that the WDFW "can" initiate?So what is your interpretation of delisting? What does it mean to you, as it relates to the language of the wolf plan? To me, it's just a step in the right direction with 2 more bigger steps to go, pending lawsuits and a public vote.
I certainly hope that you are not thinking that I am some how aligned with the views of Toby and Lobo are you?