Free: Contests & Raffles.
For the record, I am not a cop hater, I have lots of good friends who are cops of all sorts, I just don't agree with the loss of rights that is occurring in this country.
Quote from: Goshawk on June 29, 2013, 10:41:53 PMQuote from: Johnb317 on June 26, 2013, 05:36:53 PMThe article said the no knock warrant was approved solely on the basis that he had an ak47. Drug search as his son was selling. There have been more than one instances where a it was the wrong house and the home owner was shot trying to protect himself from 'strangers' that broke down his door. Even a knock warrant doesn't necessarily give a person much time to answer the door. I understand the need for such things, but worry that it can be too easily abused. But not as many as you may think:in ALL of the USA, according to the CATO Institute there were by the years this many deaths from police raids on the wrong homes: 2011 – 22010 – 22009 – 02008 – 22007 – 02006 – 1None would be in a perfict world, but this ain't bad.How you look at those numbers being acceptable depends on whether it was your family or friends that were the statistic.
Quote from: Johnb317 on June 26, 2013, 05:36:53 PMThe article said the no knock warrant was approved solely on the basis that he had an ak47. Drug search as his son was selling. There have been more than one instances where a it was the wrong house and the home owner was shot trying to protect himself from 'strangers' that broke down his door. Even a knock warrant doesn't necessarily give a person much time to answer the door. I understand the need for such things, but worry that it can be too easily abused. But not as many as you may think:in ALL of the USA, according to the CATO Institute there were by the years this many deaths from police raids on the wrong homes: 2011 – 22010 – 22009 – 02008 – 22007 – 02006 – 1None would be in a perfict world, but this ain't bad.
The article said the no knock warrant was approved solely on the basis that he had an ak47. Drug search as his son was selling. There have been more than one instances where a it was the wrong house and the home owner was shot trying to protect himself from 'strangers' that broke down his door. Even a knock warrant doesn't necessarily give a person much time to answer the door. I understand the need for such things, but worry that it can be too easily abused.
Thank you for illustrating my point so well, it's all about the police today, peoples rights no longer matter.
Quote from: bearpaw on June 30, 2013, 09:40:18 AMThank you for illustrating my point so well, it's all about the police today, peoples rights no longer matter. Absolute nonsense. It is so much harder for police to do searches nowadays, almost everything requires a warrant. A warrant isn't based on "thinking something", it's still based on PC being established. Use of force is much more regulated. Officer conduct is more closely scrutinized. All of these are good things. But for you to say it's all about the police nowadays? Ask a cop if the job has changed much in the last 10 to 20 years and I can tell you the answer you'll get.So when Spokane PD does a SWAT raid on the Hell's Angels clubhouse, should they knock first You volunteering to run point position?
I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?
I think there is quite a difference between knocking down the door of known criminals and the door of a law abiding citizen just because "you think = probable cause" there may be something illegal inside. The problem is that mistakes are made and there should be zero tolerance especially when it involves innocent people's lives. You won't like this, but I'm not sure I agree with knocking down the door of any clubhouse, probably depends on what you actually know for certain is inside. I do hope you are correct that warrants are actually harder to get, everything in the news seems to point to an erosion of individual rights.First off, I don't know that warrants are harder to get. I meant to articulate that warrantless searches are nearly a thing of the past. Other than search incident to arrest, and officer is pretty much expected to get a warrant for about anything.I don't see an erosion of civil rights, quite the opposite in fact. Officers can no longer search a residence based on owner consent. They are required by law to advise the homeowner that they are not legally required to consent to a search. Officers cannot search a vehicle incident to arrest anymore. If you are the passenger on a traffic stop, you don't even have to speak to the officer unless the stop is for a criminal action.I could go on and on, but it's not necessary. Probable cause for warrants has not changed. It is still a set of facts that would lead a reasonable person (NOT the officer) to believe that evidence of a crime is located at a specific location. It is not based on what the officer "thinks". Even if someone tells the officer the evidence is located somewhere, there has to be some corroborating evidence to back it up.Probable cause is not a finite threshold. Obviously, judges are human and as such the standard for probable cause varies. Some judges require so much basis to the probable cause that you virtually have your case won before you ever get your warrant. The thing to remember though, is that a judge's determination of probable cause is guaranteed to be subjected to the scrutiny of the appellate courts and the media, and I don't know of many judges that like to see their warrants, rulings, and decisions overturned.I agree fully that lives can be at stake. I don't like to see the wrong house hit, it's never a good thing for anybody. I really doubt that too many judges take it lightly when they sign a "no-knock" warrant.
Quote from: bobcat on June 30, 2013, 02:09:13 PMI'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?NopeGo on Amazon and type in FBI shirt or gear and you would be surprised at whats available.
Hitting the wrong house is the fail, regardless of whether someone got shot. Whoever did the search warrant and provided the house info at the brief dropped the ball. You can hit the wrong house and still have a justified shooting, however difficult that is for some folks to wrap their heads around.
Quote from: Goshawk on June 29, 2013, 10:41:53 PMQuote from: Johnb317 on June 26, 2013, 05:36:53 PMThe article said the no knock warrant was approved solely on the basis that he had an ak47. Drug search as his son was selling. There have been more than one instances where a it was the wrong house and the home owner was shot trying to protect himself from 'strangers' that broke down his door. Even a knock warrant doesn't necessarily give a person much time to answer the door. I understand the need for such things, but worry that it can be too easily abused. But not as many as you may think:in ALL of the USA, according to the CATO Institute there were by the years this many deaths from police raids on the wrong homes: 2011 – 22010 – 22009 – 02008 – 22007 – 02006 – 1None would be in a perfict world, but this ain't bad.Yes...it is bad. I look at it as a two grade test. PASS or FAIL. 2 out of 6 ? That's bang, bang, bang.......OOPS, sorry wrong house 4 out of the 6 years.That is bad in my book.
