2 accused of illegally selling caviar, steelhead, salmon

[JLS]

How many of the suspects from the operation were investigated and/or charged?

Those are two different questions.  How many were investigated?  My partner and I made over 600 contacts on this operation.  We decided early on that we did not want to sweep up any "dummies" (people who didn't know what they were proposing to deal in was illegal), so the vast majority of the people who contacted us; we ended up not doing business with after we told them what they were doing was illegal.  They were "investigated", but set free.

Out of those suspects who knew full well they were committing crimes (almost all of the crimes were felony level), we ended up making transactions (purchase or sale of illegal wildlife) with about 80 or so.  Once we did search warrants and interviews, we ended up passing the 100 suspect milestone. 

Our chief had promised me 2 years on this operation, so that we could take in two complete hunting seasons, but the deputy chief shut us down making contacts with new suspects after only 14-months, so we only got to run it one hunting season (not that the seasons made a big difference to these guys).

Had we be allowed to run the operation for the 24-months, as promised, we would have really cut a swath through the black-market, but such is life in WDFW.  Now if we had been working Geoduck, we would still be going (shellfish rules- I found out).

Hope that answers your question?

Why did your Deputy Chief shut it down early? 

Maybe I should just buy the book and read it

[quadrafire]

Very interesting stuff UC
Curious if the resturaunts involved were all west side or were they scattered throughout the state?
What were the resturant theme? asian, middle eastern  or pizza joint?
Are they still in business?

[Curly]

ucwarden, thank you for coming back and answering questions.

Can you say if there is a higher percentage of poachers that are immigrants vs. people that are born here?   

It seems like we hear about a lot of cases where Russians have been caught poaching.  (The case that started this topic, for instance.  And the case at Lake Lenore).  The TV show "Wardens" in Montana seems like they bust several Russian people.

Also, we hear stories about brush pickers (usually illegals from S. America or Mexico) killing deer while out picking brush.  I'm not sure how true those stories are; I've not heard of them officially being caught.............just seems like anecdotal evidence.

[snowpack]

Very interesting stuff UC
Curious if the resturaunts involved were all west side or were they scattered throughout the state?
What were the resturant theme? asian, middle eastern  or pizza joint?
Are they still in business?

Would it be wrong to think the cougar ended up in Chinese food? 

[JLS]

Very interesting stuff UC
Curious if the resturaunts involved were all west side or were they scattered throughout the state?
What were the resturant theme? asian, middle eastern  or pizza joint?
Are they still in business?

Would it be wrong to think the cougar ended up in Chinese food? 

Sweet and sour baby

[ucwarden]

How many of the suspects from the operation were investigated and/or charged?

Those are two different questions.  How many were investigated?  My partner and I made over 600 contacts on this operation.  We decided early on that we did not want to sweep up any "dummies" (people who didn't know what they were proposing to deal in was illegal), so the vast majority of the people who contacted us; we ended up not doing business with after we told them what they were doing was illegal.  They were "investigated", but set free.

Out of those suspects who knew full well they were committing crimes (almost all of the crimes were felony level), we ended up making transactions (purchase or sale of illegal wildlife) with about 80 or so.  Once we did search warrants and interviews, we ended up passing the 100 suspect milestone. 

Our chief had promised me 2 years on this operation, so that we could take in two complete hunting seasons, but the deputy chief shut us down making contacts with new suspects after only 14-months, so we only got to run it one hunting season (not that the seasons made a big difference to these guys).

Had we be allowed to run the operation for the 24-months, as promised, we would have really cut a swath through the black-market, but such is life in WDFW.  Now if we had been working Geoduck, we would still be going (shellfish rules- I found out).

Hope that answers your question?

Why did your Deputy Chief shut it down early? 

Maybe I should just buy the book and read it

The answer to this one is again largely my opinion.  The official reason I was given was that he was concerned we wouldn't have enough manpower to handle taking down all the bad guys.  That was a bogus statement, as we didn't have to take them all at once.  We could have taken down the top 10 to 12 on one day, and then worked our way down the list.  I believe the real reason was more sinister; he absolutely hates me, and really resented the fact that the operation was so successful.  He originally turned down my proposed operation, so I did an end-run and took it to the chief (going over the top of the deputy chief's head).  Nobody likes it when a subordinate goes around you and gets a different answer.  Also; the more time and money we spent on wildlife cases, was taking away from what he believed was more important; shellfish. 

[ucwarden]

Very interesting stuff UC
Curious if the resturaunts involved were all west side or were they scattered throughout the state?
What were the resturant theme? asian, middle eastern  or pizza joint?
Are they still in business?

Two on the westside, and two on the eastside.  Three of the four were Chinese restaurants, while the fourth was yuppie/tourist restaurant which served elk steaks (they were supposed be be from out-of-state game farms, but poached Washington elk proved to be cheaper for the restaurant owner.

As far as I know all are still in business.  The one in Walla Walla is without an manager/owner, as he is in federal prison on our charges right now, but they are still in business as far as I know.

[ucwarden]

ucwarden, thank you for coming back and answering questions.

Can you say if there is a higher percentage of poachers that are immigrants vs. people that are born here?   

It seems like we hear about a lot of cases where Russians have been caught poaching.  (The case that started this topic, for instance.  And the case at Lake Lenore).  The TV show "Wardens" in Montana seems like they bust several Russian people.

Also, we hear stories about brush pickers (usually illegals from S. America or Mexico) killing deer while out picking brush.  I'm not sure how true those stories are; I've not heard of them officially being caught.............just seems like anecdotal evidence.

That is an interesting question.  First of all, I was ordered to not deal with tribal members (for the first 3/4's of the operation), so none of the suspects at first were native americans. 

Wildlife trafficking really works differently with different species.  Bear parts, for example, almost always end up with Korean or Chinese customer in the end.
The eagles and hawk market is mostly tribal or Japanese.
Deer, elk, sheep etc. are almost all regular old white americans.
Caviar (sturgeon and salmon) is eastern european (Russia or Ukraine).

With a few exceptions (i.e.- the Chinese restaurants), most of the suspects we arrested were plain old white male americans.  Some very wealthy, and some addicted to meth, and everything in between.

Almost all of the people involved in

[ucwarden]

Very interesting stuff UC
Curious if the resturaunts involved were all west side or were they scattered throughout the state?
What were the resturant theme? asian, middle eastern  or pizza joint?
Are they still in business?

Would it be wrong to think the cougar ended up in Chinese food? 

Nope; you are correct.


Maybe everyone who has an interest in this operation should take a look at this Kiro 7 report, on Operation Cody:
http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/eagle-heads-bear-penises-cougar-meat-part-local-wi/nWNxy/

[bobcat]

the fourth was yuppie/tourist restaurant which served elk steaks (they were supposed be be from out-of-state game farms, but poached Washington elk proved to be cheaper for the restaurant owner.

This is why elk farming should be illegal! There should be no such thing as domestic elk. Then restaurants wouldn't be serving elk steaks at all. You want elk meat- go elk hunting. You want to eat out- eat a beef steak.

Thankfully that's one thing our state did right- making elk farming illegal. 

[ucwarden]

the fourth was yuppie/tourist restaurant which served elk steaks (they were supposed be be from out-of-state game farms, but poached Washington elk proved to be cheaper for the restaurant owner.

This is why elk farming should be illegal! There should be no such thing as domestic elk. Then restaurants wouldn't be serving elk steaks at all. You want elk meat- go elk hunting. You want to eat out- eat a beef steak.

Thankfully that's one thing our state did right- making elk farming illegal.

Bobcat:  I agree.  A common agruement comes up, among, as to whether or not hunters should be able to sell what they kill.  Many people say that if the animal was legally killed, then you should be able to do whatever you want with it. 
That is a great theory, but unfortunately when you open up a legal market, you make it much easier for the illegal traffickers to do business.  Use cocaine as an example; you can't sell or buy cocaine legally under any circumstances.  Therefore if someone is dealing in cocaine, they are done once LE can prove the sales (or even possession). 

Many species of wildlife (other than protected or endangered) is legal to possess, but the sale/purchase is illegal.  Once you open that door to legal sales, then in comes the poachers to make a quick buck.  A business (i.e.- a restaurant) simply buys some elk meat from an out-of-state game farm and keeps the receipts on-hand in-case they are inspected, but then buys the majority of their elk meat from poachers.


I agree with you, if someone wants an elk steak, hunt it or know a friend who hunts and is willing to share.

I hate to see markets opened to wildlife trafficking, it just gives poachers a foot in the door.

[quadrafire]

I got busted one time trying to sell catfish to a "uniformed" game warden in Missouri. He told me he could either take me to jail, or I could release all the fish I had just caught with a dipnet and he would let me walk.

I was 8 or 9  yrs old     come to find out he was a friend of my Grandmas and gave her a hard time about her "felon" grandson. LOL

Sure hard to turn all those fish loose.

[Gringo31]

I love this thread.  Thank you ucwarden for your line of work and for sharing.  Sorry about the rough start 

I think a big problem is that when "us white" guys see a native looking guy (could be hispanic) we assume tribal activity and "nothing to see here". 

I've had several hispanic guys tell me you can go to Mabton and buy deer from the indians for $40. 

 

[singleshot12]

So who's doing most of the actual poaching and supplying the product to the black market buyers and restaurants?  I see eastern European or Asian immigrants coming to this country with no respect for our laws and then paying drug addicted meth heads to do the dirty work for them. This country has some serious issues when you think about it. Too much corruption on all fronts.

[ucwarden]

I love this thread.  Thank you ucwarden for your line of work and for sharing.  Sorry about the rough start 

I think a big problem is that when "us white" guys see a native looking guy (could be hispanic) we assume tribal activity and "nothing to see here". 

I've had several hispanic guys tell me you can go to Mabton and buy deer from the indians for $40. 

 

Don't get me wrong; we have multiple offers from tribal members for everything from elk, to eagles, but we were foirbidden (by our administration) from pursuing tribal members.  That changed at the last minute (towards the end of the operation) when we were given the green light to deal with one tribal member....we bought an elk from him.

When it comes to seeing or hearing about things going on illegally; don't assume anything!  Call it in, and insist that an officer call you back in-person.

I have always told people that I would rather have a ton of information, even if some of it was useless, than to not have information passed on to me because the witness felt it may not be worthy.  When you see or hear something...report it.