Antelope shot in 1956 on Clemens Mountain (Yakima County)

[snowpack]

Just because our skills as riflemen have digressed to the point where most shooters today cannot use iron sights does not mean that 350yds was unbelievable in those days. I know my skills with iron sights are better than most and 200yds is not a stretch. I believe that for experts of the day 350yds would be very believable.

   Marine Corps trains and qualifies with open sights and you have to able to qualify out to 500yards.  So how is it hard to believe.......

Also can't think of optical errors involved in using iron sights.  Most scope users would be experiencing enough parallax error (unless they adjusted for it) from the scope and the changed weld due to elevation needed for that distance that they would have more error than the guy using iron sights.

[turkeyfeather]

I guess I didn't really make what I was thinking earlier clear. I certainly think a shot of that distance can be made. I just dont think it was in this case. This whole story sounds like an urban legend to me. 

[TangoU]

Just because our skills as riflemen have digressed to the point where most shooters today cannot use iron sights does not mean that 350yds was unbelievable in those days. I know my skills with iron sights are better than most and 200yds is not a stretch. I believe that for experts of the day 350yds would be very believable.

Hitting targets with iron sights at 500 yrds in a prone position as standard qual when I was in the Marine Corps. Teaching my kids with iron sights on the .22 to begin with. Start with the basics. 

[j_h_nimrod]

Just because our skills as riflemen have digressed to the point where most shooters today cannot use iron sights does not mean that 350yds was unbelievable in those days. I know my skills with iron sights are better than most and 200yds is not a stretch. I believe that for experts of the day 350yds would be very believable.

   Marine Corps trains and qualifies with open sights and you have to able to qualify out to 500yards.  So how is it hard to believe.......

Not hard at all, just stating a point regarding the previously stated unbelievability of the shot. It is a little different if you are a trained Marine shooting at a body silhouette at 500yds vs. your average hunter/shooter today. I am pretty certain I could qualify expert as my father did; I learned on iron sights too. Hunting qualification is a bit different than the military though, your 500yd target is ~18"x36", not the 6-8" circle I consider the kill zone on an animal. If I can't keep it in 4" at 200yds open sighted I would be surprised.

I guess I didn't really make what I was thinking earlier clear. I certainly think a shot of that distance can be made. I just dont think it was in this case. This whole story sounds like an urban legend to me. 

Not sure how this figures as an urban legend. Antelope were known to be in that area around that time and a 350yd shot with a high speed .22 is not unbelievable...

[RadSav]

That's a little out there if it was a .22 rim fire  maybe a .22 hornet ..

It was a .22 High Power.

I agree.  Don't think the 1899 was ever offered in any other .22 caliber but the Hi Power.  I'd love to get my hands on one of those!  Probably 4K or better these days.  One of the few I do not have and have never even laid eyes on one.

[jdb]

Just because our skills as riflemen have digressed to the point where most shooters today cannot use iron sights does not mean that 350yds was unbelievable in those days. I know my skills with iron sights are better than most and 200yds is not a stretch. I believe that for experts of the day 350yds would be very believable.

   Marine Corps trains and qualifies with open sights and you have to able to qualify out to 500yards.  So how is it hard to believe.......

Not hard at all, just stating a point regarding the previously stated unbelievability of the shot. It is a little different if you are a trained Marine shooting at a body silhouette at 500yds vs. your average hunter/shooter today. I am pretty certain I could qualify expert as my father did; I learned on iron sights too. Hunting qualification is a bit different than the military though, your 500yd target is ~18"x36", not the 6-8" circle I consider the kill zone on an animal. If I can't keep it in 4" at 200yds open sighted I would be surprised.

I guess I didn't really make what I was thinking earlier clear. I certainly think a shot of that distance can be made. I just dont think it was in this case. This whole story sounds like an urban legend to me. 

Not sure how this figures as an urban legend. Antelope were known to be in that area around that time and a 350yd shot with a high speed .22 is not unbelievable...

they were known by who to be in that area?

[snowpack]

Ok so he must have adjusted for about 14 feet elevation and he had around 49 foot pounds of energy and thats if there was no wind lol.any head wind and it would have hit the antelope like a bee.by the way a 1 mile an hour side wind would have thrown that bullet off about 2 in.with a 40 grain bullet at 100 yards the bullet is only traveling at around 1000 fps.and if the speed of sound is 1126 fps that .22 would be tumbleing all over the place at around 200 yards,so in conclusion i say no way could this even be a good story let alone a true one lol.     

It was a .22 High Power not a .22 LR.  The high power is between the .223 and the .22-250. 

[snowpack]

As far as I know the 1899, later 99 only came in a few cartridges until the redesign in the late 50's.  Before that I think the only cartridges were ones designed by Savage, the only .22 cal one of theirs I can think of was the high power.  After the late 50's they modified the gun (moved the safety and took out the counter and some small stuff) and added more calibers.  I think .22-250 was one, but later in the production.  Could've had a gunsmith work it over and put a .22 LR, block the rotary mag and drop the firing pin down to make the centerfire into a rimfire; but seems to be a bit much. 

[Mike450r]

There is no model 1899

Savage model 1899

[stevemiller]

There is no model 1899

Savage model 1899

Yep i found it,it was made in 1912 with the .22 cal.i was looking around the 1899 era.anyways yes as a matter of a fact after reading everything about this it is very easy to believe that a person could have shot this at even 500 yards.thanks all i haven't taken out these antique load books for a very long time. 

[RadSav]

The .22 High Power was not available until 1912.  But the 1899 was available prior to that. 

The original load data for the .22 High Power stated it was developed by Charles Newton by down sizing the neck of the 25-35 and would push a 70-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps.  Liking the speed and performance of the .22 High Power so much Newton quickly turned to the development of the 250-3000.  A round he specifically designed to match the .22 High Power velocity with a 100 grain bullet.  It was marketing pressure that brought about the 87 grain 3000fps and the 25cal Newton became the 250-3000 Savage. 

Now the .22 High Power is pretty much known as the 5.6x52R.  I'm not sure what that load data is like today, though I understand it is still popular among European deer and varmint hunters.

[RadSav]

Agreed, the 22-250 was designed in the 30s but wasnt produced until mid sixties by rem.I will look in my old load books and check to see if any of this is in there. 

Savage did not offer a 22-250 version of the Model 99 until 1977.  It was very short lived and was dropped from the line by 1980.

[stevemiller]

The .22 High Power was not available until 1912.  But the 1899 was available prior to that. 

The original load data for the .22 High Power stated it was developed by Charles Newton by down sizing the neck of the 25-35 and would push a 70-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps.  Liking the speed and performance of the .22 High Power so much Newton quickly turned to the development of the 250-3000.  A round he specifically designed to match the .22 High Power velocity with a 100 grain bullet.  It was marketing pressure that brought about the 87 grain 3000fps and the 25cal Newton became the 250-3000 Savage. 

Now the .22 High Power is pretty much known as the 5.6x52R.  I'm not sure what that load data is like today, though I understand it is still popular among European deer and varmint hunters.

This is all the same data that i had on here for you but took down by accident.

[RadSav]

This is all the same data that i had on here for you but took down by accident.

I hate it when that happens    Nothing more fun than typing for 10 minutes just to hit the wrong button and POW!  I could use a "Are you sure?" button before I leave a post   My Staples "Easy Button" doesn't seem to work

[stevemiller]

Ha aint that the truth,so anyways do you also happen to have a pile of old ammo data books full of almost useless knowledge laying around?